this post was submitted on 13 May 2024
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[Dormant] Electric Vehicles
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That's how you end up being fully dependent on China. They're using the same tactic as Amazon used to force bookstores to close down, sell at a loss long enough that the competition can't compete and needs to go out of business.
Have fun dealing with tens of thousands of jobless factory workers! That sure did improve conditions in Detroit when the same thing happened there!
I'm saying that just because there will be "thousands of jobless factory workers" doesn't mean the situation is, overall, bad.
Yes, that particular outcome is bad, but it's not the only thing that will happen. And I argue that the benefits gained by other sectors of the economy outweigh the negative effects suffered by them.
This argument is like saying that transitioning to renewable energy will put thousands of Appalachian coal miners out of work. That's true, it will, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.
There will be winners and losers in every economic decision. The important thing is to consider whether there are more winners than losers, not whether there are any losers at all. Economics is cold, calculating, and unforgiving. If you want to argue, you'll need to come up with actual arguments and not just snappy two-liners that sound nice when typed into a Lemmy comment.
I provided an argument that wasn't a two liner, dependence on China.
Once local manufacturers start closing their factories and your start losing all the local expertise, what do you do when China is in a position where they can dictate the price because they're now in control of the market?
You've got a very short term view of things if you only think about the benefit for consumers as prices are low due to subsidies, once the subsidies are gone you're left with a market where cars are no cheaper but the money doesn't stay in your country anymore, that's a huge loss compared to the short term benefit.
Anyone who paid attention to the globalization debate back in the 90s knows that it's not beneficial in the long term to depend on other countries. The difference this time is that China is trying to force everyone's hand instead of having rich countries willingly sending manufactures overseas.
It's a completely valid concern that you've brought up regarding dependence on China.
I don't believe there will be a point where that happens. That's pretty much the reasoning behind why I don't agree with the tariffs. Automakers aren't stupid. I truly believe that they can compete, but just don't want to because it's more profitable to get the Government to levy tariffs against electric cars than to make them instead of gasoline cars. Americans can run their own subsidy regime to flip this maths. I'm pretty sure that automakers would rather make electric cars than no cars.
Yes, it might result in layoffs along the way. I regard that as the cost of progress.
People though it wouldn't happen for so many things and then COVID happened and we finally realized that we had shipped our manufacturing capacity for so much stuff to Asia that we're now playing catch-up to reverse the mistakes of the past.
Again, it's not just about layoffs, it's about making sure you can't get fucked by another country if they decide to make a move against you. It just requires one political incident and you're in for a round of inflation because China decides to increase its prices just enough that people still don't have a choice but to buy from them because the alternatives are still too expensive.
And if you think American manufacturers can't go bankrupt then you don't need to look too far to be proven wrong and once that happens then you're at the mercy of the goodwill of foreigners. Considering the political landscape in the USA that's not a position I would want to be in.