this post was submitted on 15 Apr 2024
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[–] Greenleaf@hexbear.net 56 points 8 months ago (7 children)

Now that it seems certain Ukraine is gonna get its $60 billion, has there been any analysis on how that money can translate into actual battlefield performance for Ukraine. Like, will that money even slow down Russia’s advance? I feel like at this point the money isn’t even all that important relative to the fact that it seems unless NATO commits to massively provocative actions (like sending NATO troops to fight), Russia will still be advancing just at a different pace.

[–] volcel_olive_oil@hexbear.net 47 points 8 months ago

you give the money to the tank so it is motivated to shoot harder

[–] SeventyTwoTrillion@hexbear.net 37 points 8 months ago (1 children)

it makes me think that Ukraine will no longer be falling before the US elections given that Russia seems unwilling to do big arrow offensives even to this day but that's about it

[–] Commiejones@hexbear.net 34 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The money wont help because there are no weapons to buy. Everything that has been sent so far has the regular MIC grifter price tag ($52000 trash cans) but now they get a bonus supply shortage multiplier. I'm not sure what the conversion rate ends up being but bullet for bullet against Russia? $60 billion is gonna buy what Russia burns through in a few days to a weeks at most.

[–] Greenleaf@hexbear.net 15 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I mean, I don't think Russia is burning through >$3 trillion per year, but I get your point. There's nothing left to buy, maybe some shells that aren't going to do much. I think the only way the west can make an actual impact in the war is crossing the big red lines (letting Ukraine shoot off missiles deep into Russia or providing boots on the ground or flying their own NATO jets in the air.

[–] supafuzz@hexbear.net 36 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Russia isn't burning through that much money because they don't have to pay NATO MIC grifter prices, he's saying that $60 billion will only buy Ukraine a couple of Russia-weeks worth of ammo because they do

[–] supafuzz@hexbear.net 31 points 8 months ago (1 children)

(also half of that money is going to get spent on luxury cars in Kiev and Lviv)

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 1 points 8 months ago

And Arlington and so forth.

[–] trompete@hexbear.net 26 points 8 months ago (2 children)

It slows Russia's advance insofar as Ukraine cannot pay anyone's salaries without inducing hyperinflation if they don't get a steady flow of dollars. It would be real difficult for the government in Kiev to order people around without paying them.

[–] SoyViking@hexbear.net 9 points 8 months ago

It will also help them pay domestic arms manufacturers. I read an article recently about Ukrainian arms manufacturers being in financial trouble and looking to export their stuff rather than sell it to the regime who can no longer pay like they used to.

[–] jackmarxist@hexbear.net 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Wasn't the US paying Ukrainian salaries?

[–] trompete@hexbear.net 2 points 8 months ago

Indirectly? Yes. Directly, as in people get checks from US govt? No.

There is/was this talking point, particularly around the time of the US government shutdown threat, that the US would be paying Ukrainian salaries (while US govt employees don't get a paycheck), but I'm pretty sure they just mean that some US taxpayer money goes to the Ukrainian govt, and Ukraine pays out salaries at the same time, so you could sort of say that some of the money ends up as paychecks for Ukrainian officials. They'd be paid in local currency and not US dollars though (except maybe foreigners?).

[–] ThomasMuentzner@hexbear.net 25 points 8 months ago

they will spend it all on strategic terror acts in russia i think.. .

[–] Doubledee@hexbear.net 21 points 8 months ago

How sure is everyone that this is gonna definitely happen? I guess the democrats could help Johnson survive a leadership challenge but surely that's the kiss of death? Can he survive being carried by the opposition? More democrats voted for this bill than Republicans, it's like the Dems are taking the controls out from over the ostensibly conservative majority. Can't imagine that playing well to the base.

[–] 420stalin69@hexbear.net 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I think the idea is just to keep Ukraine standing. If the army makes it through the summer without collapsing then this continues into 2025.

Obviously $60 bn isn’t enough for Ukraine to win but if we assume the west doesn’t care if Ukraine wins they just want to make sure Russia bleeds then $60 bn is enough to maintain a life-support level of artillery shells and to equip another 500,000 undertrained conscripts with basic kit.

Didn’t Ukraine just ram through conscription changes? Just before this got approved? I think that indicates it was a precondition. The west wont send in really heavy stuff but will arm another meat wall.

At this point, without direct nato involvement, the best Ukraine can really hope for is to keep Odessa.