this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2023
-43 points (24.1% liked)
Asklemmy
43979 readers
786 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Unfortunately it seems really common for any new social media platform to lean way too hard into wither the far left or right, instead of finding a middle ground where a wider range of political views can coexist.
But hey, if we had to pick one extreme, then far left is a lot better than the far right nazi apps that crop up a lot.
They have been a lot of time here, they were here maybe one or two years before the reddit migration. In that scenery, apart from your own arguments against socialism, we can not oppose to that presence in the fediverse, they have been warm to welcome new people, and they are active part of community. We had to deal everyday with far-right in reddit, give yourself the opportunity to know something different.
One or two years? Communists built Lemmy from scratch dude.
Source: I was there.
I agree, and as other comment mentioned: foss seems to appeal more to the left leaning. It'll probably get more balanced with time, though not like I want more rightwing circlejerks but that the extremes would get kinda buried under the masses of sane people.
idk about that, both extremes end up with millions dead.
Are we really still "both siding" this?
You have one side stating that the current social and economic systems cause a lot of people to suffer and die in poverty - maybe we could change the those systems so that the world becomes more fair and fewer people suffer.
While the other side basically says: people we don't like shouldn't exist. Let's make their lives more miserable.
And you think those two positions are the same?
Let's be fair here, they're probably talking about the properly far extremes. The Nazis and the communists both killed millions and caused a lot of suffering last century. Horseshoe theory and all that.
Obviously the far left you typically encounter online doesn't tend to be authoritarian-communist-regime levels of far left, but I feel like people are being a little to hostile to the idea that extreme in general are pretty bad things.
We should always be suspicious when someone starts both-sides'ing Nazis and Communists. Only one side was killing Nazis, after all.
And yet events like the Katyn Massacre come to mind.
Yes, war crimes are bad, but you are a sick puppy, or hopefully just very mistaken, if you think that or any other Soviet atrocities puts the USSR on par with Nazi Germany.
Just because I only referenced on item doesn't mean there aren't millions more souls attributable to the USSR. The USSR easily cost more lives in Poland than Hitler/Nazi's did. Not just because of WW2... but because of the mass murder committed for the next 40 years under USSR rule.
I'm first generation American. My grandfather taught me exactly how it was under Communist rule. I'm far from mistaken and have literally dozens of phone numbers I can call to get a first hand account of it all going all the way back to WW2.
Uh huh, and how many of those "victims of communism" were actually some of the worst people in the world at the time, like Czarists and Nazis? Sorry your grandfather is bitter that he didn't get the dacha he wanted or whatever.
Considering that my grandfather was an officer in the polish navy... You're barking up the wrong tree buddy. He would have been "blessed" by the communist government to hold his position. He would be "privileged". And still holds the USSR as literally the worst thing he's had to live through. Imagine that.
But keep making assumptions about stuff you clearly know nothing about nor have lived through.
Edit: Forget the fact that even though my Grandfather would have been "privileged". Many of my family weren't... They were murdered and sent to Siberia to be forgotten. I literally have names... of people who were directly related to me. But come back and tell me they were the worst in the world... My family came from nothing and did nothing in the grand scheme.
Sorry that your family had a bad time. It's still wild that you don't think the Nazis were incomparably worse.
You cannot use “incomparably” and “worse” in the same sentence. Worse designates a comparison between two things. Meaning one is inferior to the other. If by worse we are talking about murder (because this is what the conversation was pointed to), let’s look at the numbers: Hitler - roughly 20 mil including soviet civilians Stalin - Roughly 45 million Mao - Roughly 40 million (in a 4 year period) Ongoing Uyghur genocide in modern day Communist China - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-22278037 MINIMUM 500K in camps with an estimated 12 million persons who identify in that group. Obviously the government isn't going to actually disclose the REAL numbers.
You can indeed describe something as incomparably worse when it is so bad that a comparison doesn't make sense or there's no point to making one. I really don't think I'm the one who's out of line here.
Anyway, the whole "victims of communism" trope you're invoking is just embarrassingly facile. The numbers are contrived and no consideration is ever given to the terrible conditions out of which the various revolutions came or the horrible forces they were subsequently up against, let alone comparative conditions in the so-called free world. Everyone who ever lived and died in a communist state is a crime against humanity, but whenever someone dies in the US because they had to choose between medicine and rent it's their own damn fault. Give me a break.
How reasonable of you. Critical thinking skills provide a person the ability to hold two competing notions in their head. One does not need to win out for critical thoughts of the other to remain. I get annoyed that everyone wants things to be black and white (e.g. Dems good GOP bad). It’s not that simple and we need to stop trying to reduce it to such polar language. The left also has corruption. The corruption in the left has also lead us to this precise point in history. The democratic party was heavily dishonest with primaries during the last Clinton campaign. They intentionally squashed and targeted other democratic candidates.
I wish we would stop ignoring all the problems just because it doesn’t suit a narrative that one side is good and the other is bad. It’s not that simple. One is absolutely worst than the other, but they both need each other to exist. People need to stop pretending like left shit don’t stink. It does because it is also shit. The left is not at all exempt from corruption. All humans are susceptible to corruption, especially humans in positions of power. Views taken to any extreme are almost always bad.
How many people have died as a result of things like preventable diseases, lack of housing, poverty, or unaffordable healthcare as a result of living in a capitalist society? How many people has the USA killed interfering when in foreign nations as part of their war against communists around the world?
Is this something you really want to "both sides"? Only one side kills Nazis.