this post was submitted on 29 Feb 2024
238 points (96.1% liked)

Fuck Cars

9826 readers
1 users here now

This community exists as a sister community/copycat community to the r/fuckcars subreddit.

This community exists for the following reasons:

You can find the Matrix chat room for this community here.

Rules

  1. Be nice to each other. Being aggressive or inflammatory towards other users will get you banned. Name calling or obvious trolling falls under that. Hate cars, hate the system, but not people. While some drivers definitely deserve some hate, most of them didn't choose car-centric life out of free will.

  2. No bigotry or hate. Racism, transphobia, misogyny, ableism, homophobia, chauvinism, fat-shaming, body-shaming, stigmatization of people experiencing homeless or substance users, etc. are not tolerated. Don't use slurs. You can laugh at someone's fragile masculinity without associating it with their body. The correlation between car-culture and body weight is not an excuse for fat-shaming.

  3. Stay on-topic. Submissions should be on-topic to the externalities of car culture in urban development and communities globally. Posting about alternatives to cars and car culture is fine. Don't post literal car fucking.

  4. No traffic violence. Do not post depictions of traffic violence. NSFW or NSFL posts are not allowed. Gawking at crashes is not allowed. Be respectful to people who are a victim of traffic violence or otherwise traumatized by it. News articles about crashes and statistics about traffic violence are allowed. Glorifying traffic violence will get you banned.

  5. No reposts. Before sharing, check if your post isn't a repost. Reposts that add something new are fine. Reposts that are sharing content from somewhere else are fine too.

  6. No misinformation. Masks and vaccines save lives during a pandemic, climate change is real and anthropogenic - and denial of these and other established facts will get you banned. False or highly speculative titles will get your post deleted.

  7. No harassment. Posts that (may) cause harassment, dogpiling or brigading, intentionally or not, will be removed. Please do not post screenshots containing uncensored usernames. Actual harassment, dogpiling or brigading is a bannable offence.

Please report posts and comments that violate our rules.

founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Concerned about microplastics? Research shows one of the biggest sources is car tyres

A lot of the emphasis on reducing microplastics has focussed on things like plastic bags, clothing, and food packaging.

But there's a growing body of research that shows one of the biggest culprits by far is car tyres.

It's increasingly clear that we simply cannot solve the issue of microplastics in the environment while still using tyres — even with electric-powered cars.

"Tyre wear stands out as a major source of microplastic pollution. Globally, each person is responsible for around 1kg of microplastic pollution from tyre wear released into the environment on average each year – with even higher rates observed in developed nations.

"It is estimated that between 8% and 40% of these particles find their way into surface waters such as the sea, rivers and lakes through runoff from road surfaces, wastewater discharge or even through airborne transport.

"However, tyre wear microplastics have been largely overlooked as a microplastic pollutant. Their dark colour makes them difficult to detect, so these particles can’t be identified using the traditional spectroscopy methods used to identify other more colourful plastic polymers."

https://theconversation.com/check-your-tyres-you-might-be-adding-unnecessary-microplastics-to-the-environment-205612#:~:text=Tyre%20wear%20stands%20out%20as,rates%20observed%20in%20developed%20nations.

"Microplastic pollution has polluted the entire planet, from Arctic snow and Alpine soils to the deepest oceans. The particles can harbour toxic chemicals and harmful microbes and are known to harm some marine creatures. People are also known to consume them via food and water, and to breathe them, But the impact on human health is not yet known.

"“Roads are a very significant source of microplastics to remote areas, including the oceans,” said Andreas Stohl, from the Norwegian Institute for Air Research, who led the research. He said an average tyre loses 4kg during its lifetime. “It’s such a huge amount of plastic compared to, say, clothes,” whose fibres are commonly found in rivers, Stohl said. “You will not lose kilograms of plastic from your clothing.”"

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/14/car-tyres-are-major-source-of-ocean-microplastics-study

"Microplastics are of increasing concern in the environment [1, 2]. Tire wear is estimated to be one of the largest sources of microplastics entering the aquatic environment [3,4,5,6,7]. The mechanical abrasion of car tires by the road surface forms tire wear particles (TWP) [8] and/or tire and road wear particles (TRWP), consisting of a complex mixture of rubber, with both embedded asphalt and minerals from the pavement [9]."

https://microplastics.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s43591-021-00008-w

#car #cars #urbanism #UrbanPlanning #FuckCars @fuck_cars #environment #microplastics #pollution #plastics

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Even small pure evs will wear out faster than a small ice or hybrid, but it would still be a huge help if they sold smaller ones.

Of course the issue is that smaller range EV's aren't all that wanted except as a second vehicle for short trips. If you have a short range EV it won't work as a complete replacement, so you then need two vehicles.

[–] LovesTha@floss.social 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

@ColeSloth @CubbyTustard I checked my movement history for the last few months. The furthest I went in a car in a day was 80k. If we look back over the entire year 160k is the furthest.

A small EV with 100k range would be a fine second car. A full sized sedan EV as the primary car with 200k range would be sufficient.

Any trip that is further than that should prefer to use rail for the bulk of the travel, hiring a car at the far end if needed (most holidays I've taken haven't needed a car)

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de -1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

You're European. How your country is sized and built is vastly different than what is capable right now in the US. Heck, I drive 90 miles (so like 145 KM ) each way to work a couple times a week. Stuff is spread out differently when your country is just the size of a US state.

[–] PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml 3 points 9 months ago

Your decadent lifestyle shouldn't have ever been normalized. Your neighborhood likely should have never been built. And the hundreds of miles of road network that you use weekly doesn't need to exist.

[–] TransitBiker@urbanists.social 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

@ColeSloth @LovesTha My friend, this has been debunked many times. Please stop propagating auto industry propaganda. The US is not “too big” for public transportation. We choose to prioritise automobiles & car-centric infrastructure. It’s a choice.

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The US is most definitely too big and too spread out for complete or even close to complete public transportation. It's only viable going from large city to large city and within a city. The US would need a complete redesign for public transport to work for a lot of people. Not to mention the lack of time people have and that it can ad an hour to a trip that's 20 minutes by car.

[–] TransitBiker@urbanists.social 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

@ColeSloth i’m sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about. You’re literally parroting incorrect automobile and highway lobby talking points. The US interstate system is the worst thing to ever happen in terms of economy, equality, and ecology on top of the nonsensical logic going on here. I encourage you to seek out urbanist and transit planning YouTube and Twitch channels & educate yourself on the facts.

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

And I'm sorry, but as someone who lives in a smaller city and outside city limits where it's more affordable, driving to a city, paying to park, taking a bus or train to go to another city and taking a bus to get where I need to go in that city is expensive and wastes loads of time and money. What you want only works if you live in a big city (which costs loads more) and can do everything you need to do almost all the time while staying in that city. Highways are also a requirement no matter what for commercial transport and time sensitive needs. You think things like emergency organ donations have time to take a train without a highway? Or ems transport for patients?

[–] epistatacadam@toot.wales 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

@ColeSloth @TransitBiker I don't live in a city. And certainly not a big one. I use a bus or train to get into the nearest city. Bus 30 minutes, train 15 minutes , car 45. Longer at peak times except train of course. Car is most expensive, petrol tax, parking etc. bus cheapest. I can even take a train to London airport for international travel, and I don't live in England. ,🙂

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Wanna know how different things are in the US? Two times a week I drive to work from my little city. It's 180 miles (not kilometers) round trip. Even if where I lived were big enough to warrant any sort of bus network to get to a train, I'd still not be within a walk of a bus stop. And no train would get close enough to where I work, so that would mean another bus. Literally wouldn't work. Y'all can't really fathom how the US is built unless you actually came to the US and drove/got around anywhere outside of the major tourist cities. Most of the country isn't like NYC or Orlando.

[–] ajsadauskas@aus.social 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

@ColeSloth @epistatacadam I noticed you didn't respond to @LovesTha after they mentioned they're from Australia.

Yeah, Australia is "built different" to the US in that we have less than 1/10th the population in a land mass roughly the size of the continental US.

Yet despite that we still somehow manage to have better public transport than most of the US.

Long commutes? One of my colleagues at my current job travels from Bendigo to Melbourne at least two days a week. That's a 186 mile (300 km) round trip.

In a previous job, one of my colleagues commuted from Katoomba to Sydney. You wouldn't have heard of it, but it's a town of around 8,268 people in the mountains. A 126 mile/102km round trip.

And in my previous job I semi-regularly had to commute from Sydney to Newcastle. That's 324km (202 miles).

The difference is that all those commutes are by train.

Yes, we have towns like Katoomba in the mountains with less than 10,000 people that have a half-hourly peak and hourly off-peak train service: https://transportnsw.info/documents/timetables/93-BMT-Blue-Mountains-Line-20230708.pdf

Why not drive? Well, because the (by world standards) slow trains from Bendigo to Melbourne travel at 160 kp/h, compared to 110 kp/h at best for driving: https://vicsig.net/index.php?page=passenger&section=rollingstock&subs=railmotors&rmtype=VLocity

(Of course, you won't consistently get those speeds driving, because of traffic jams.)

So how can Australia do it while America can't?
Because the US federal government has literally spent trillions of dollars subsidising roads, subsidising the auto industry, and subsidising fossil fuels.

Because governments mandate that business owners subsidise drivers by imposing minimum parking requirements.

Because zoning codes explicitly outlaw mixed use development and higher density developments in many parts of the US.

Because US governments at all levels have imposed this on its citizens for the past 70 years, while hardly investing in public transport infrastructure.

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Your entire population has no city over 100,000 people that doesn't live near the coast and almost all of those are in the southeast and east side of the country. All you need to get around by train there is essentially one track shaped in a funny looking circle.

[–] ajsadauskas@aus.social 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

@ColeSloth "Your entire population has no city over 100,000 people that doesn’t live near the coast"

Canberra's population is 456,692, but it's only the national capital.

Ballarat's population is 117,240.

Bendigo's population is 103,818.

Albury-Wodonga is around 100,000 and growing.

"and almost all of those are in the southeast and east side of the country."

Perth, Adelaide, Mandurah, and Darwin say hi.

"All you need to get around by train there is essentially one track shaped in a funny looking circle."

You mean to reach all the major coastal capital cities?

You do realise Australia is roughly the same size as the continental US, right?

And it would have to be a bloody funny looking circle to have Melbourne, Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo, and Albury-Wodonga.

All with over 100,000 people or more (in the case of Melbourne and Geelong, much more).

All have a direct rail line with regular passenger services to Melbourne, as does Gippsland and Shepparton.

By the way, Dubbo has a population of 43,516. It's inland, and 392 km (244 mi) NW of Sydney. You know what else it has?

Trains: https://transportnsw.info/regional/book-sydney-to-dubbo-by-train

Bonus fact. You know what Alice Springs, in the middle of the continent with a population of 25,912 and nothing but desert for miles around has?

Trains: https://www.journeybeyondrail.com.au/journeys/the-ghan/

C'mon son, you can do better...

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

So you're saying you have like 30 with populations at or over 100k? Ok. Wow. The US has over 330 like that. A rail system doesn't sustain when people are trying to get from one place to so many different destinations and you can't claim it can, when it's literally never been created on a scale of anything similar to the US. For everyone to get to their destinations without it taking many extra hours of travel time you'd have to have a massive amount of trains and track, and tons of them would be going places where they may only have a handful of passengers on board, and a train running with just a dozen passengers is a hell of a lot worse for the environment than a dozen cars. A lot worse. Trains are only efficient if they're closer to full. That can't happen in the US unless travel destinations limit themselves way down, which cuts a lot of people off from using them.

[–] ajsadauskas@aus.social 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

@ColeSloth "So you’re saying you have like 30 with populations at or over 100k? Ok. Wow. The US has over 330 like that."

So you should have many more pairs of cities that should support rail.

And once you have a pair of cities that support rail, you can have stations in each of the towns between them.

Even if they're only a couple of hundred people.

"A rail system doesn’t sustain when people are trying to get from one place to so many different destinations and you can’t claim it can, when it’s literally never been created on a scale of anything similar to the US."

The US already has an extensive rail network. As in, right now. Here's a map: https://www.arcgis.com/apps/mapviewer/index.html?webmap=96ec03e4fc8546bd8a864e39a2c3fc41

That's all the places where it's viable for a commercial operator to have railways based on freight.

So a decent starting point would be just to run passenger services along those existing freight corridors, as Brightline did in Florida.

And frankly, if the US had spent a fraction as much on rail as it has on propping up the auto and oil sectors, it'd be viable.

(By the way, before the World Wars, the US had even more railways with a smaller population. Many US towns are where they are because of the railways.)

"For everyone to get to their destinations..."

You have a hub where many lines converge, or lines that cross one another.

If trains are timetabled to arrive and leave at the same time, or arrive frequently, you transfer.

So think of multiple lines between pairs of big cities, serving many smaller towns in between.

Even if you're the only person travelling between one tiny town on one line to another tiny town on another line. And you're the only person making that particular journey in a given month.

If there's a station or hub you can transfer at, you can make that journey by rail.

"...without it taking many extra hours of travel time..."

Trains are significantly faster than cars, and don't get stuck in traffic.

"...and tons of them would be going places where they may only have a handful of passengers on board..."

If it's on a line between two larger cities, even small towns are viable for rail. If it isn't, you run a frequent feeder bus service to the nearest town with a train station.

"a train running with just a dozen passengers is a hell of a lot worse for the environment than a dozen cars. A lot worse."

You do realise electric-powered trains exist, right? And electricity can come from renewables? And renewable energy can be stored?

"That can’t happen in the US unless travel destinations limit themselves way down, which cuts a lot of people off from using them."

The problem is that the US has government-owned roads and not rail.

The problem is the US spent $597 bn (adjusted for inflation) building the interstate highway system, instead of investing in rail.

Half a trillion subsidy for the interstates alone.

The problem is that the US government mandated planning codes that make it illegal to build the types of developments that support rail.

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The US doesn't have just "pairs of cities". You branch off from city to city to city to city you'll turn a 140 mile straight drive that's just over 2 hours into a 400 mile train ride with three transfers and 10 hours long.

[–] ajsadauskas@aus.social 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

@ColeSloth Here's how that problem was solved in a country called *checks notes* America in the early 1900s: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2Fbon-U7GpfU-Qps1R7xOyG1EfRjRVSyX7FsVdhN_kpng.png%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Df05295494056e3b1e6821c853aeb4aed61909ce8

Here's a map of just the Illinois Central Railroad:https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSm-rwgQ1PSRo4GIplmxRZscx_nF-betb5SMRbEo7juj5nxUP0lpUp-NXs&s=10

And Missouri: https://www.loc.gov/item/98688505/

This is what America used to have, albeit with a much smaller population.

Lots of hubs, lots of lines crossing each other. Lots of small towns served in between.

See, what the people in America knew was that trains are faster than automobiles, and they still are.

So you've effectively turned one-hour straight train journeys (with one or two transfers at most) into two hours stuck in traffic.

Because unlike cars, the more people use trains, the more frequently services run, so it gets faster the more people use it. Whereas the more people drive, the more traffic there is, and the slower it gets.

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 8 months ago

I don't live near one of the big cities with traffic jams. There's generally only a couple cities per state (average) at most that commonly have traffic jams like that.

And yes, in the early 1900's. When a car was "fast" if it did 30 mph, had shit suspension, was good for about 60,000 total miles, had no freeways everywhere, and had like 3 million cars in existence. People didn't take the train because it was faster, so much as because people didn't own cars, and the ones that were available were only cars in the sense of they had 4 wheels and an engine attached. The trips taken back then by train were much slower than what a car can do today.

[–] exocrinous@lemm.ee 1 points 9 months ago

A short range EV has a lot more range than my bicycle, and my bicycle goes plenty far enough for my daily needs.

[–] weezmgk@mastodon.social 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

@ColeSloth Complete myth. EVs are far more durable than any ICE vehicle, having a couple thousand fewer parts and requiring far less maintenance. @CubbyTustard

[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 9 months ago

You can get a rebuilt engine for $3,000 and pay someone $2,000 to put it in (overestimate, really. Motor swaps take like 5 hours to actually do).

Your large EV battery will cost you triple that or more. Plus they go through tires much faster. But hey, you save on some $40 oil changes, I guess.