this post was submitted on 02 Jul 2023
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"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis, 1935 (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago by HLMenckenFan@lemmy.world to c/atheism@lemmy.world
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[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

There are certainly more useful models to explain fascism than by interpreting it as a meaningful ideology. Authoritarians don't perform fascism because they understand and believe in it. People acting ignorantly or at cynical the manipulation of others are not following any ideology.

I don’t think left/right is a dichotomy.

But then you cite a diagram with a left/right dichotomy. Yes, there are other dimensions on the diagram, but it does plot in terms of left and right.

Things governments do that you will not find on any similar diagram: regulatory capture, kleptocracy, genocide, taxation without representation, raiding and pillaging foreign countries, executing children, nuclear terrorism. Those are all outside valid political discourse. Just like you could not put the moon or the feeling you get when you smell the rain on the left/right spectrum. It just doesn't make sense to do so.

I argue that fascism is more at home among those things than among anything you can call left or right. All things that fall on the spectrum somewhere have something in common and I argue that fascism lacks it: it is not valid political speech.

Further, I argue that it works against our goals of reaching a fair and safe compromise for everyone when we lump our erstwhile political opponents in with people who are simply doing evil.

You don't have to agree with me, but you haven't shown that I'm wrong.

[–] PizzaMan@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

But then you cite a diagram with a left/right dichotomy.

The above graph is a spectrum, and it was just an example.

Those are all outside valid political discourse.

To be clear, I do not think that all sections of the above graph are valid political discourse. It's simply a way to categorize.

I argue that fascism is more at home among those things than among anything you can call left or right. All things that fall on the spectrum somewhere have something in common and I argue that fascism lacks it: it is not valid political speech.

I agree with that, which is why those things you listed, regulatory capture, kleptocracy, genocide, taxation without representation, raiding and pillaging foreign countries, executing children, nuclear terrorism, are all things that are accounted for with the authoritarian part of that spectrum.

Further, I argue that it works against our goals of reaching a fair and safe compromise for everyone when we lump our erstwhile political opponents in with people who are simply doing evil.

There is no such thing as a fair and safe compromise for everyone when fascists exist. There is no compromise for genocide. Somebody is going to have to be unhappy no matter what.

You don't have to include our political opponents and fascists on the graph if you don't want. I am simply stating the fact that if all is to be categorized, fascism is an ultra authoritarian, right wing ideology. That is the most accurate it can be described given current definitions.

You don’t have to agree with me, but you haven’t shown that I’m wrong.

That's not how the burden of proof works.