this post was submitted on 02 Jan 2024
142 points (91.8% liked)

Solarpunk

5450 readers
50 users here now

The space to discuss Solarpunk itself and Solarpunk related stuff that doesn't fit elsewhere.

What is Solarpunk?

Join our chat: Movim or XMPP client.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You didn't answer the question.

ban bad technoligies.

How? The niches for those technologies are created and maintained by those same people you want to do a complete 180 and ban-hammer them instead.

set up non-capitalist structures

How? Using your example you have to either manufacture and distribute said cancer medicine yourself. Which is a crime... And at they point it's probably more effective to just straight up rob a pharmacy and redistribute, robin hood style. I hope I don't need to go into detail how that's not a real answer/solution...

(Sidenote: https://fourthievesvinegar.org/ is very cool and doing some work in this sort of direction, but it should stand as an example of how complicated and largely inefective at scale that approach is.)

change planing priorities.

So go to approval hearings and throw a fit until you are arrested and they build the car based infrastructure anyways?

add hidden costs as real costs.

Oooh neoclassical economics!!! So how should I bill you for my time writing this comment?

[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

How? The niches for those technologies are created and maintained by those same people you want to do a complete 180 and ban-hammer them instead.

By lobbying the government. It happens a lot. For my example you have a list of gas boiler phase outs here and for fossil fuel cars here. Obviously this is far from easy, but a combination of lobbying, electing the right politicans and protests has worked. You can easily look up what exactly they had to do, to get it done, if you care.

How? Using your example you have to either manufacture and distribute said cancer medicine yourself. Which is a crime… And at they point it’s probably more effective to just straight up rob a pharmacy and redistribute, robin hood style. I hope I don’t need to go into detail how that’s not a real answer/solution…

Public health care as I said. That way you are not negotiating alone against big pharma, but form a monoploy in a given country, which is able to reduce costs a lot. To be fair most countries already have it, so it is mostly adapting it to work. Here is a little map of who already has it(the green ones):

So go to approval hearings and throw a fit until you are arrested and they build the car based infrastructure anyways?

For the most part you just go to the public hearings and calmly and nicely agrue your case. For the most part nobody cars, so you might be alone in them. As it is also on a local level, big fossil fuel often does not even turn up. You have to be aware that the project you argue to be better is not going to be improved much unless you are lucky. It is about the next one, where the planners actually start to incorporate your sugestions and propably badly. Then you turn up again and suggest something better. It takes a long time, but it has been done in a lot of different places.

Oooh neoclassical economics!!! So how should I bill you for my time writing this comment?

Thanks has to be enough. Seriously we have a capitalist system and that is a good way of stopping the bleeding.

Anyway the solutions are out in the world. Not just the technology, but also for the most part the systems we need to implement them on scale. It is just a matter to spread them.

[–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So to summarize your suggestions are:

lobbying the government

not negotiating alone against big pharma (lobbying again)

Calmly and nicely agrue your case.

we have a capitalist system and that is a good way of stopping the bleeding.

Again, none of those answer the question. Those are all "do nothing and trust those with power and authority to do the right thing." It's the definition of useless liberalism and displays quite the level of privilege and disconnect from reality.

You can easily look up how completely ineffective those solutions are, if you care. Did you even read the article this comment thread is posted under?

[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

No, trusting the authorities to do the right thing, would be sitting at home and doing absolutly nothing.

[–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Right, which is why I'm saying that your 'solution' is nothing. It boils down to: "Lobby!(1) Then go home(2), sit and wait(3)"

  1. With your loads of cash and free time.
  2. Which of course everyone has.
  3. Which is a luxury we can certainly all afford.
[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Great that we agree that lobbying works. Otherwise you would not go home and sit around and just wait. With a fixed problem however that is perfectly fine.

[–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 1 points 10 months ago

Great, my work is done. I've done a lobby and convinced you that Lobbying doesn't actually change anything and that you'll have to actually do something. And now I can sleep easy knowing that you'll fix it all for me!