this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2023
909 points (99.9% liked)
196
16459 readers
2335 users here now
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Taiwan currently produces some of the worlds besteht chips via tsmc and holds a very powerfull geological Position in the "south china'' sea
Even if they managed to recover all chip factories after a full scale invasion (which the Taiwanese could easily sabotage), the production is based on a lot of western technology, which they couldn't replicate for decades. So the factories would be of little use.
Chinas economy is also very reliant on exports to western countries (US, Japan, Europe), if they invaded Taiwan that would plunge the world economy into the worst crisis ever seen that would hit China especially hard. They're already struggling with serious demographic and other economic issues that will put them into a difficult spot in the next decades. Invading Taiwan would be very, very terrible for basically everyone, and suicide for the CCP.
I agree with you, but I also thought that about Ukraine, so who knows
I think your consideration isn't bad and many, including myself, believe China won't attack...unless there's a weak US President/leadership. Consider that Crimea was invaded under Obama but Ukraine was outside the west's protection; same can currently be said of Taiwan but Taiwan is less about what is has to offer to the west (beyond a western friendship) and more about containing China deep into their waters. Ukraine had a lot of political tensions in the early 2010s and I think Obama was stuck in a nuanced position that ultimately boiled down to: how committed and effective will Ukraine be against Russia (corruption was a huge consideration around 2014). But Obama should have done more (including the EU) sooner. This allowed Trump to play both sides: publicly lick Putin's boots while allowing military assistance to Ukraine - pleasing the military complex at the very least, regardless of who won. But even as Trump's administration was wrapping up their mess, you could tell some in the GOP were setting a stage for pulling back military assistance; still are trying. Biden made sure assistance was unwavering and wants to degrade Russia in the eyes of the world while the west's military complex shovels in taxpayer money. Taiwan, under Democrat leadership, is an easy choice: they're not corrupt even with their wing of China friendly politicians, they're trained and continue to be armed to the teeth with only one purpose: hold until the west comes to their defense (including S Korea and Japan). I honestly believe Hong Kong was too hard to defend from China but perhaps it might have played out differently under a Democrat POTUS. Lastly, Taiwan doesn't have to "win" so much as make sure China doesn't win; I think the US would be fine with another North South Korea tension if it keep China in their waters and off of Taiwan and their waters; most notably off of their eastern waters/shores.
It wouldn't be suicide unless they are stupid or incompetent, as most of the world won't respond with violence. Trump probably wouldn't respond militarily, but Biden plans on it. The dumbest thing China could do is attack the US first, or too directly, as most of the world won't offer military support otherwise. Pacific Asian countries won't proactively get involved, but will aid the US to protect against China. If China only shoots Americans that directly attack them, they'll be able to paint the US as the aggressor who's meddling in an internal conflict. If they attack military bases or ships enforcing a blockade too directly, the US will be galvanized, and if they attack first to cripple the US's ability to blockade fuel imports, the world will be galvanized and WWIII becomes likely.
China's best strategy against Biden's America is to totally forgo maintaining any chip technology whatsoever, taking Taiwan as quickly as possible with no regard for collateral damage. If they don't succeed within a month, the mainland will suffer dearly, and if they piss off the American public too much, they'll face constant hostility from the largest military on earth.
Biden will be motivated to maintain pressure, while Trump won't want to waste American resources unless China attacks unprovoked for some dumb reason. Trump will do stupid shit like trying to invade Mexico and putting tariffs on all imports, but he's less likely to fight China if they don't provoke him. However, Trump is still risky, as if he gets personally upset at China, he'll escalate dangerously just to show strength. China will be motivated to limit collateral damage and take Taiwan more slowly, so Trump doesn't get as mad about the economic hit from invading. Ironically, China now wants Trump in office and Biden out, while it was almost the reverse in 2020.
I'd be surprised if any country responded militarily. It's not in the interest of anyone to risk WW3 over Taiwan, and China knows this. In contrast to Russia, they are probably competent enough to take Taiwan in a day or two before anyone can send significant aid.
There would be massive economic implications though. The most effective deterrence that western countries have are sanctions, and they can't let China invade without consequences to keep the deterrence effective (also for other countries), so they'd have to be used. Investment in China would probably be banned for decades to reduce reliance.
If hundreds of millions of Chinese fall back into poverty due to the invasion, that would be a serious threat for political stability in China.
That's why Biden would respond with force. He needs to make good on the deterrence, but will avoid escalating too far.
Til