this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2023
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People that get tips should make at least minimum wage like everyone else. The employer should not get to pay less because someone gets a tip.
I always try to tip in cash. First so the person getting the tip can decide if they want to declare it as income. Second so it goes where I intend it to go.
20% is a good tip. More is not necessary.
I always decline tipping on the screens.
Never pre-tip. Tipping should always happen after service. You won't get a refund on that tip if the service is bad.
Edit: A word
My fear of not tipping before I get my food/product is the fear of a resentful employee tampering with it before I get it. So then I'm left in a situation of feeling like my food is being held hostage if I don't give a tip. It really feels like a shakedown, and I don't appreciate it. It has made me stop frequenting places that ask for a tip before I even get my food.
That doesn't happen. The companies want you to think that happens, but anywhere that you're tipping before receiving service is a place with employees that don't get paid in tips individually. It's either split evenly or the owner takes a large cut of what you "tip." So the employees really don't care enough to fuck with your food, which could get them fired or prosecuted.
Tips like that are an excuse for the owners not to pay their employees a fair wage and tell them during hiring they could make "up to x" amount.
something that's always bothered me when I see this brought up, but what's stopping the businesses from managing all that for their employees themselves? it's not like everyone doesn't have the tech to find out gas prices around the area, and the estimated traffic distance and travel time on any map view. Hell, just tack that on as a service fee instead of the ¯\(ツ)/¯ they currently use it for.
this is all rhetorical, because of course it's obvious why businesses don't want to be more upfront about the final cost to the consumer, and keeping the employee blaming the customer for their bad take-home pay
again, what's stopping the outsourced app business from calculating the gas and tacking that onto the customer's bill?
Nothing. In fact, they do that where I live. The same companies even. Uber eats etc.
what I'm trying to get at is we have the ability to build software to automate the calculation and payout on all of this. If the problem is realtime opting-in of drivers in the area, solutions could be created if the businesses were motivated to be more upfront to both their employees and the customers
like have the customer give a price range they're willing to pay for the gas, and have the software advertise to all drivers that would fit into that price range from their current locations, and show them up on the map to the customer with some dollar sign amount for their gas prices above their icons. if there isn't any, the software would be able to notify the customer before the order is finalized. if no one eligible opts to pick up that order after a certain time frame, then that's also a customer notification.
A lot of the problems being brought up could be solved with effort put towards engineering the software to make everything more upfront to everyone, but those businesses aren't motivated to be more consumer-oriented and employee-friendly; that's my main point in all this
Sure, that seems reasonable to me. I rarely do food delivery so I was not really trying to address it with my comment above.
Edit: 2 words
Sorry, delivery drivers should just be paid a living wage too.
This could be spun around to contract work where the company is offering each contractor a set amount of money to deliver each time. Again, there is no need for a customer to subsidize the companies pay
How pathetic. So much mental gymnastics here to justify it all and avoid admitting that tipping to begin with is the problem.
Gentle request to still tip if you think service was bad. The employee could be having a bad day, something could be out of their hands, or even if they're just a shitty worker, they can be let go after enough fuck ups. Denying someone their tip because you think it was "bad service" is part of that bullshit master-slave dynamic. Normal employers can't deny wages if someone shows up and doesn't do the work - they have to be fired or sent home
Gentle request to pay employees properly instead of shifting that burden to the customer and laughing on top of the pile of money you saved.
Denying someone their tip because the service was bad is the exact purpose of a tip. Making it anything else is exclusively helping shitty employers and literally no-one else.
Yeah, and tips are the thing shifting burden onto customers...so denying servers or whoever a tip as long as that system is in place just hurts employees, not employers. If you want to hurt employers then help employees unionize. They kinda need tips to build emergency funds and shit during that process, unless you want to go the route of voting unions as requirements in the meantime?
Edit: you could also not go to stores that rely on it to begin with
You're seriously suggesting that the way we end tipping culture is to tip everyone even more for an indeterminate duration of time so the employees receiving those tips can... save up for strike funds to strike against tipped wages...?
If customers tipped so well that employees could make that kind of money, no one would be striking to end it. All you would have accomplished by this is twisting the arms of customers even harder than before. This is the exact opposite outcome everyone downvoting you is seeking.
If I'm being frank, I think the only way to truly rip off this bandage for good is to stop tipping, and squeezing employees. Make these jobs so unpalatable to work at that no one will willingly take one. Starve the employers that normalize subminimum wage of their labor pool, and either force them to adapt and offer living wages or drive their unviable business models out of business.
Of course, that solution is horrendously machiavellian, requiring that things get much worse before they get better. Far worse than any human with a drop of empathy would allow. So, yeah, while I do think it's the most realistic answer, it's obviously a bad answer.
The next best thing for customers to do is simply not give these places business, as you suggested in your edit. That's my strategy right now. I do tip at expected rates when I am in such places, because I'm not an asshole, but I minimize my trips to them as much as possible.
More unions sounds like a great idea! It's the less machiavellian and more organized version of the "drive the ones that don't comply out of business" idea. I'm all in. But it's unclear exactly how random passing customers should help create unions. All I can note is that expecting us to give more patronage to the business that has every incentive to bust the would-be union while also stopgapping one of the major issues that would drive the formation of the union in the first place by tipping harder is probably not the way.
It doesn't matter who I hurt by not tipping. It matters that I help shitty employers keep up a shitty system if I do. Employees are being hurt whether I tip or not. But my money will not go into some exploitative asshole's pocket, regardless of your appeals to emotion.
You're telling me, the customer, that I should help the employees unionize? Are you all up to date with the respective responsibilities of parties here? I believe it's the employees who should drive unionization, not customers who are entirely unable to do anything about it.
Also, was the suggestion that tips go into emergency funds meant seriously? Do you know how unions and emergency funds operate?
Most businesses don't advocate that they're exploiting their employees, so your suggestion to just "not go to stores that rely on it" falls a bit flat.
I’ve seen people too because their food came out slowly, even if it was hot then they got it… which is entirely beyond the control of the server, except if perhaps they lagged on turning in the order. Pretty lame if the place is just slammed and they end up doing twice the work for the same amount of tips.
Counterpoint. Never tip ever.
If you aren't shopping or eating at establishments where employees rely on it, by all means
I think a minimum tip is a great idea.
Well, ideally employers just pay enough so it isn't pushed onto customers.
Are you an actual idiot? How about the companies pay their employees instead of avoiding taxes like they do today?
Maybe even just call it a service charge like other places in the world.