this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2023
71 points (78.9% liked)
Asklemmy
43856 readers
1763 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
It sounds like you're describing the Paradox of Tolerance.
I don't really have a good answer other than follow your heart, I guess.
It's not a paradox, it's a social contract. Tolerance is only deserved by those who are tolerant themselves.
https://archive.ph/vL5iT
In philosophy, "paradox" often doesn't mean that something really is self-contradictory, but rather that it seems self-contradictory. There are what Quine called "veridical paradoxes" which seem at first to be contradictions but actually turn out to be true but non-obvious. That's the case for a lot of "paradoxes" arising from math, for example the birthday paradox.
(In any event, "deserve" is much more complicated than "paradox"!)
It is a paradox because there's no objective, universal definition of tolerance. It's literally impossible to be tolerant of everything. So you're left with different forms of what intolerance people deem acceptable.
People make the same mistake about bigotry. It's impossible not to be a bigot. You just don't want to be the wrong kind of bigot. Now if only we could all agree on exactly what that was.
The word paradox has too many meanings, alas. I like jan Misali’s explanation of the word: there are five definitions of paradox. https://youtu.be/ppX7Qjbe6BM?si=Lnkao0t0qFLi9tjj
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/ppX7Qjbe6BM?si=Lnkao0t0qFLi9tjj
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
The “paradox” here is that by being tolerant of intolerance, we are actually decreasing the overall level of tolerance when normally we’d expect tolerant behaviors to increase tolerance.
Compare it to the “death wave.” When someone stops in a multi lane intersection to allow someone to cross in debt of them, the pedestrian/vehicle can’t see around the stopped vehicle and this can result in them being hit by a motorist in the adjacent lane. It feels like you’re being safe and considerate, but you’re actually putting the other person in more danger than if you had simply followed the right of way. It happens often enough that a name has been coined for the phenomenon.
Tolerating hate increases hate, not tolerance. Tolerating hate in the extreme decreases tolerance not only relative to the hate, but because once hate takes over they eliminate tolerance (see Florida).
OP is describing their own growing bias towards an ethnic group based on opinions they have encountered in a few of them. They want help with their own biases. This isn't really the kind of answer this post needs. It's becoming cliche.
Being religious or homophobic isn't a ethnic group. OP is basically growing a hatred for bigoted/sexist/xenophobic people because they're forced to interact with them on a regular basis, which sucks for sure :-(
You have no reason to believe that. That's a nice interpretation but all you heard is "People like them". It's uncomfortable to say they are stereotyping based on race. But that's probably what's going on.
Why else would you look for advice? "I don't like bigots, what do I do?" I guess if that's the only problem you are equipped to talk about then better to stick to it. I'm trying to help someone navigate out of bigotry because that's the more important interpretation.
I may have read it incorrectly but I didn't see anything about an ethnic group in OPs post. The only distinguishing factor they provided was "blind hate and bigotry". Which is not an ethnic group.
I think this where the bias settles in that he wants to remove.
Ok, yeah I can see that reading it again. Probably my own biases causes me to ignore that part initially. Thanks for pointing it out.
I don't think so, as I stated earlier I hate my nationalist coworkers, but my problem is, that I have the same feelings for people like them that I don't know.