this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2023
167 points (94.2% liked)

Asklemmy

43856 readers
1997 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy ๐Ÿ”

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Philippa Foot is most known for her invention of the Trolley Problem thought experiment in the 1960s. A lesser known variation of hers is as follows:

Suppose that a judge is faced with rioters demanding that a culprit be found for a certain crime. The rioters are threatening to take bloody revenge on a particular section of the community. The real culprit being unknown, the judge sees himself as able to prevent the bloodshed from the riots only by framing some innocent person and having them executed.

These are the only two options: execute an innocent person for a crime they did not commit, or let people riot in the streets knowing that people will die. If you were the judge, what would you do?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[โ€“] Nemo@midwest.social 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

State violence is always worse, less acceptable, than interpersonal violence. Moreover, the judge has no reasonable reassurance that her wrong action now will lead to a satisfactory outcome later; that is to say, she could execute an innocent and the rioters might still attack.

All versions of the trolley problem are rooted in utilitarian ethics and inherit the flaws of that philosophy.

[โ€“] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Said the guy saying state violence is always worse than lynch mobs...

Not a utilitarian, but goddamn what a weak line to lead with.

[โ€“] Nemo@midwest.social 1 points 1 year ago

A lynch mob is terrible, a state-sanctioned lynch mob is worse, a state-enacted pogrom is even worse. I stand by what I said.

[โ€“] Umbrias@beehaw.org 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

All versions of the trolley problem are rooted in utilitarian ethics and inherit the flaws of that philosophy.

What? The point is to demonstrate different approaches. Yes a utilitarian will answer a predictable way. You can answer a different way. That's fine. That's the point. There's no right answer, it's a thought experiment.

[โ€“] Nemo@midwest.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

a utilitarian will answer a predictable way

That's the point. The "thought experiment" is constructed in a way that makes only utilitarian ethics have a clear right answer. Deontologists and virtue ethicists have to argue their positions and are still in a grey area, making their arguments appear dubious. It's structural favoritism.

[โ€“] Umbrias@beehaw.org 0 points 1 year ago

Okay? So? A utilitarian having an easy answer doesn't actually mean there's 'structural favoritism.' First of all, utilitarians always have an easy answer to most thought experiments that don't address the prediction problem. The value in a thought experiment isn't in the ease of your answer. That's just stupid. The value in the thought experiment is stepping in and evaluating a stance, philosophy, belief, or lack thereof, and in getting one step towards applying and comparing them.

If you think the idea of a thought experiment is to score points by answering quickly and feeling smug, then I think you've missed the point dreadfully.

Half the interest in a given thought experiment is changing or adding nuance and seeing how that changes answers! Your position just feels angry, and not for any good reason, but because of a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of a thought experiment and how you should navigate them, combined with feeling outrage preferentially because the internet just does that.