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213

Dispelling the myth of a universal "Lemmy" community, and discussion of what the fediverse really is (beehaw.org)

submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by Cipher@beehaw.org to c/technology@beehaw.org

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Like many, when the recent defederation went down, I decided to create a couple other logins and see what the wider fediverse has had to say about it.

I've been, honestly, a bit surprised by the response. A huge portion of people seem to be misidentifying communities as belonging to "lemmy" as opposed to the instances that host them. I think a big portion of this seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of what this software is, and how it works.

For example, lemmy.world users are pissed at being de-federated because it excludes them from Beehaw communities. This outrage seems wholly placed in the concept that Beehaw's communities are "owned" by the wider fediverse. This is blatantly not how lemmy works. Each instance hosts a copy of federated instances' content for their users to peruse. The host (Beehaw in this example) remains being the source of truth for these communities. As the source of truth, Beehaw "owns" the affected communities, and it seems people have not realized that.

This also has wider implications for why one might want to de-federate with a wider array of instances. Lets say I have a server in a location that legally prohibits a certain type of pornography. If my users subscribe to other instances/communities that allow that illegal pornography, I (the server admin) may find myself in legal jeopardy because my instance now holds a copy of that content for my users.

Please keep this in mind as you enjoy your time using Lemmy. The decisions that you make affect the wider instance. As you travel the fediverse, please do so with the understanding that your interactions reflect this instance. More than anything, how can we spread this knowledge to a wider audience? How can we make the fediverse and how it works less confusing to people who aren't going to read technical documentation?

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[–] erwan@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 years ago (2 children)

As we are seeing the same issues with Lemmy and Mastodon I'm starting to think there is something fundamentally wrong with ActivityPub.

Because instances pull content from others they have a responsibility in the content, so instances with different rules can't really work together.

If on the other hand we had a lighter integration between instances, like for example RSS to consume from multiple instances and only having federation for identity management (like OpenID or OAuth) I feel like we could avoid a lot of drama.

[–] spark947@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago

Its not as bad as you describe. The issue is only present when it comes to large instances interacting with other large instances. As an instance takes on more users, it is going to have a harder time serving everyone all at once. So some restrictions will ha e to be imposed so it can offer service at scale. This will include defederating with other large instances for community maintenance.

The solution is that if you need your own set of rules than it is up to you to host your own instance. I think that is fair.

Overall, instances should in general try to federate, because that is what makes this go round. And you Alcan understand the salt users would have since they are effectively banned from a large community over something that they didn't really do. But those are the breaks, and the whole point is that if you don't like it you should host your self and maintain a good relationship with the instances that you want to participate in.

[–] eduardm@feddit.ro 2 points 2 years ago

RSS could really work. That way, as many others suggested, it's up to the user to block/censor whatever they don't want to see