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213

Dispelling the myth of a universal "Lemmy" community, and discussion of what the fediverse really is (beehaw.org)

submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by Cipher@beehaw.org to c/technology@beehaw.org

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Like many, when the recent defederation went down, I decided to create a couple other logins and see what the wider fediverse has had to say about it.

I've been, honestly, a bit surprised by the response. A huge portion of people seem to be misidentifying communities as belonging to "lemmy" as opposed to the instances that host them. I think a big portion of this seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of what this software is, and how it works.

For example, lemmy.world users are pissed at being de-federated because it excludes them from Beehaw communities. This outrage seems wholly placed in the concept that Beehaw's communities are "owned" by the wider fediverse. This is blatantly not how lemmy works. Each instance hosts a copy of federated instances' content for their users to peruse. The host (Beehaw in this example) remains being the source of truth for these communities. As the source of truth, Beehaw "owns" the affected communities, and it seems people have not realized that.

This also has wider implications for why one might want to de-federate with a wider array of instances. Lets say I have a server in a location that legally prohibits a certain type of pornography. If my users subscribe to other instances/communities that allow that illegal pornography, I (the server admin) may find myself in legal jeopardy because my instance now holds a copy of that content for my users.

Please keep this in mind as you enjoy your time using Lemmy. The decisions that you make affect the wider instance. As you travel the fediverse, please do so with the understanding that your interactions reflect this instance. More than anything, how can we spread this knowledge to a wider audience? How can we make the fediverse and how it works less confusing to people who aren't going to read technical documentation?

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[–] Rakn@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Nah. I don’t think it’s an education issue. E.g. I do understand how it works, but see defederation as the nuclear option. As a user in a federated system I don’t care where the communities are hosted that I frequent. As long as it works. That’s the entire point of federation. Otherwise we could just remove federation all together and have everyone create a separate account per instance.

I get where the beehaw admins are coming from and it’s understandable. But it’s not good and chips away at what Lemmy is and could be.

This is one instance now where this happened and I’m not on either of these instances, so I’m unaffected. But if I see more of these defederations (no matter where), the Signal it sends me is that for my needs I likely still have to bet on Reddit and at max this will become an occasional visit.

We are still far away from this point. Just saying. And a normal user can’t be expected to understand it or relate to it. It’s bad UX if they have to. Arguing for them to be educated about it is nice in theory, but misses in reality of how things just are.

[–] Umbrias@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Beehaw admins have no responsibility to "Lemmy as a whole" and to believe so is fundamentally misunderstanding what Lemmy instances are. They have a responsibility to their users to curate the space that they promised.

[–] Rakn@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

That makes sense. I think this also shows a general misunderstanding. Lemmy isn’t and can’t be a replacement for something like Reddit at the end.

[–] Umbrias@beehaw.org 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

A replacement for reddit in that it's the same community, culture, and content, as reddit, just hosted in a different place? No. And I hope not.

A replacement for reddit in just being an alternative social media with a similar general vibe but instead is community driven and owned social media system that generally provides better, more informative, and less outrage driven content? I believe it is.

[–] Rakn@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I mean everyone seeks something different out of those communities. I do wish for the second option in general as well. But at the same time get a lot of value out of large communities with a lot of participants and content.

Depend on what you want or need and that’s different for a lot of folks.

[–] Umbrias@beehaw.org 1 points 2 years ago

Sure, which fortunately, the federated nature of the fediverse is built to host multiple different such communities. Cultures across several instances will naturally arise.

Notably though, Beehaw is specifically targeting the second outcome, and trying to distance itself from the first. Large communities are second to the goal of constructive communities for Beehaw, and rightfully so. Hypothetically more communities running the beehaw style should arise, to help ease the burden here.