It doesn't take years long studies to understand a woman who transitioned well into or after puberty is still built more physiologically man than women. We will still need data about those who transitioned early and before onset. When a man transitions into being a woman then wipes the floor with every one of her peers, there's something wrong.

You either need mixed gender sport. Male only, and female only. The regulations regarding each will have to be arbitrarily chosen until a good spot is found.

Mental sports that take near zero physical strength should have zero separations between the genders though.

It was great when women started wiping the floor with men at Shooting lol.

It's not so great when, well, Bill Burr says it funnier lol: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2ESahoCdQ28

Edit: Since people want sauce wars...

Trans athletes retaining advantages even after a year or HRT.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/trans-women-retain-athletic-edge-after-year-hormone-therapy-study-n1252764 - Jan. 5, 2021

Given that the percentage difference between medal placings at the elite level is normally less than 1%, there must be confidence that an elite transwoman athlete retains no residual advantage from former testosterone exposure, where the inherent advantage depending on sport could be 10–30%. Current scientific evidence can not provide such assurances and thus, under abiding rulings, the inclusion of transwomen in the elite female division needs to be reconsidered for fairness to female-born athletes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9331831/ - 2022 Aug; 19

When a male athlete transitions to female, the National Collegiate Athletic Association, which governs college sports, requires a year of hormone-suppressing therapy to bring down testosterone levels. The N.C.A.A. put this in place to diminish the inherent biological advantage held by those born male.

Ms. Thomas followed this regimen.

But peer reviewed studies show that even after testosterone suppression, top trans women retain a substantial edge when racing against top biological women...

Testosterone levels are crucial but do not invariably predict performance in every sport.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/29/us/lia-thomas-women-sports.html

Renee Richards interview...

“I know if I’d had surgery at the age of 22, and then at 24 went on the tour, no genetic woman in the world would have been able to come close to me,” she said in an interview. “I’ve reconsidered my opinion.”

https://slate.com/culture/2012/10/jewish-jocks-and-renee-richards-the-life-of-the-transsexual-tennis-legend.html

The council said they ultimately decided to prioritize "fairness and the integrity" of the female competition over inclusion.

The World Athletics Council plans to form a working group to consider the issue of transgender inclusion over the next year. The committee will speak with transgender athletes to seek their perspective, review research on the matter and submit recommendations to the council.

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/24/1165795462/transgender-track-and-field-athletes-cant-compete-in-womens-international-events

However, we do have evidence - we have 13 studies that show significant retained advantage. We have a number of other studies of males with lower testosterone levels with prostate cancer, we know what happens with training, and so I think collectively the picture is quite strong to suggest that advantages are retained.
So I would be quite confident at this point that a policy that regulates women's sport by excluding male advantage, which includes trans women, is the evidence-based one.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/61346517 - 11 May 2022

In this study, we confirmed that use of gender affirming hormones are associated with changes in athletic performance and demonstrated that the pretreatment differences between transgender and cis gender women persist beyond the 12 month time requirement currently being proposed for athletic competition by the World Athletics and the IOC.10 This study suggests that more than 12 months of testosterone suppression may be needed to ensure that transgender women do not have an unfair competitive advantage when participating in elite level athletic competition.

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/11/577 - May 17, 2021

[–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 4 points 1 year ago

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[–] BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Responded to a comment above yours with sources etc. There's no good reason to exclude trans athletes from sports. Benefits diminish to a negligible point after ~2 years of hormone therapy. I do agree with you that the chess thing is ridiculous though

[–] blanketswithsmallpox@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Thanks for the update.

I've also went and provided numerous and a variety of sources, direct studies, and reputable news sites disagreeing with the nearly decade old science the ALWAYS RIGHTEOUS OLYMPIC COMMITTEE based their decision on from an apparently single cherrypicked study in 2015?

I'd agree it looks like a 2 year wait requirement is a much better factor than the current single year though. Until then though, it needs changed. Then we will need more refuting the current I've linked above which shows pretty handily across the board that MtF athletes retain advantages well after a year and longer.

[–] Blakerboy777@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@blanketswithsmallpox

@iridaniotter @BarrelAgedBoredom

Yeah, non-trans women don't enjoy being forever 2nd because they weren't born men in physically competitive sport

Some sports just have totally dominant competitors. I don't think all the men who lost to Michael Phelps enjoyed losing to him because they didn't get to be born complete genetic freaks that look like they were engineered in a lab to win at swimming. In many women's sports, the top (cis) competitors tend to have really beneficial genetics, including really high levels of testosterone compared to average. Losing to someone because their genetics help them be faster/stronger/taller is just how it goes in competitive sports. Losing to a trans woman is no different than losing to a cis woman who hit the genetic lottery.

[–] blanketswithsmallpox@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Thanks for the heads up. I've provided lots of sauce now too and will continue editing as I pull them up almost in order on Google lol.

[–] OmniDeficient@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, non-trans women don’t enjoy being forever 2nd because they weren’t born men in physically competitive sport lol.

The way you start your post is very telling. You'd have been better off leaving out the first two paragraphs.

It doesn’t take years long studies to understand a woman who transitioned well into or after puberty is still built more physiologically man than women.

Appeal to common sense. Also, why default to exclusion/discrimination rather than starting from a point of inclusion and make adjustments from there?

When a man transitions into being a woman then wipes the floor with every one of her peers, there’s something wrong.

That is not something that has been shown to happen to any significant degree. Seems like another appeal to common sense. Are trans women not allowed to win?

I'm sure you're just a concerned citizen who wants what's best for all involved. 🙄

[–] blanketswithsmallpox@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

OmniDeficient

Common Sense Fallacy... concerned citizen...

So are you going to talk about the numerous sauce or????

Right, you can't. Fallacy fallacy. I'm poking fun at the issue like numerous others have had. So the entire argument is wrong... despite....

Appeal to common sense fallacy!... Yet it's where almost all scientific studies come from lol. Also, just because something is a fallacy doesn't mean the logic isn't true lol. Black or white fallacy!

It's only a fallacy if it isn't true mate.

This isn't rhetorical roulette. The simple fact is that you can't refute the studies, you can't refute the sources, so you refuse to change your position. We literally hang a Progress Pride flag off our porch. Like the other person below, you're doing way more harm than good to trans rights.

Either get with the times and help, or stop trolling and ruining the perception of trans folk online by refusing reality. The current rules need to be changed. Top athletes have changed their position ex posto facto realizing how much of an advantage they had within those 2 years after transitioning for decades. Science is showing that people retain advantages after for even longer than 1-2 years. At the top levels of Sport, advantages as small as 1% is the different between even qualifying and medaling.

It's an issue. It's going to take time to resolve. No, swinging the pendulum too far the other direction isn't good, it ruins arguments. Yes, you're human just like those trolls, it doesn't mean you should be falling for the same stick your fingers in your ears obstinance,