“People think, increasingly it appears, that we shouldn’t be doing this. Well, let me start by saying we haven’t lost a single American in this war,” McConnell said. “Most of the money that we spend related to Ukraine is actually spent in the US, replenishing weapons, more modern weapons. So it’s actually employing people here and improving our own military for what may lie ahead.”

cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/4085063

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[–] barrbaric@hexbear.net 49 points 1 year ago (134 children)

At a 2008 summit, NATO stated that it would attempt to expand to include Georgia and Ukraine, despite Russia having stated that NATO membership for those countries was a red line for them. Georgia was immediately invaded by Russia in response. Imo this makes it clear that NATO membership for either of those countries was so unacceptable that Russia would rather invade.

If we assume that Russia (and Putin in particular) is acting violently and irrationally like a wild animal, why did NATO continue to agitate Russia when the only possible outcome would be violence? Surely a neutral or even Russia-aligned Ukraine would be preferable to a war-torn Ukraine? This is proof that the US and NATO don't care about the average person actually living in Ukraine, and indeed don't care about the Ukrainian state beyond it being a useful (and profitable) proxy against a geo-political rival.

To be clear, I'm not excusing Russia here, but geo-politics aren't about what's "fair" or "right", and if they were, the US would be a global pariah.

[–] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago (51 children)

I find in all Russia's statements kind of ridiculous that it would have a say in how other sovereign countries handle their safety. Ukraine and Georgia have their own decisions to make

[–] barrbaric@hexbear.net 29 points 1 year ago (10 children)

It's not pretty but this is how the world works. If a man is holding a gun to your head, and says he'll kill you if you don't give him your wallet, do you hold onto the wallet out of principle because robbery is immoral?

[–] timespace@lemmy.ninja 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ohhhh, I get hexbear now.

Wow, what an amazingly terrible worldview.

“I told you I was going to rob you if you tried to defend yourself, it’s your fault.”

[–] Gsus4@feddit.nl 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

That's the genesis of the word "tankie", much misused today: they say they are communist, but then advocate for the law of the strongest and can't conceive of an alliance that isn't more than vassalage and sending in the "tanks" against their allies to ensure they don't fall out of line. That's why everyone ran away from the Warsaw Pact when it ended whereas NATO endured.

[–] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

It's actually appalling how much seething hate they have towards communists

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