this post was submitted on 16 Jan 2025
75 points (90.3% liked)

Europe

1783 readers
548 users here now

News and information from Europe 🇪🇺

(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)

Rules (2024-08-30)

  1. This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
  2. No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
  3. Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
  4. No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism.
  5. Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
  6. If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
  7. Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in !yurop@lemm.ee. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
  8. Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
  9. No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)

(This list may get expanded when necessary.)

We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.

If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.

If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the mods: @federalreverse@feddit.org, @poVoq@slrpnk.net, or @anzo@programming.dev.

founded 6 months ago
MODERATORS
 

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy believes that the possibility of ending the war or achieving a truce in Ukraine hinges on Europe’s readiness to take a tougher stance on Russia.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Ooops@feddit.org -3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Are you basically asking if there are Ukrainians with about 2 working brain cells left?

Nukes are totally useless there. What would Ukaine have done? Thrown a nuke at Donbas the moment Russia mass moved troops out of there to annihilate parts of the territory they claim for themselves? Or shot a nuclear armed missile at Moscow in a total escalation probably triggering mutual large scale nuclear destruction?

Ukraine with nuclear weapons would have done exactly the same against an Russian invasion as Russia did when they began to lose territory in Kursk... nothing while loudly talking about how they totally could do it any day now... in hopes some retards in Europe believe that tale.

[–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yes, nukes are totally useless as a deterrent. Cool take, wish all the nuclear powers were on the same page.

[–] Ooops@feddit.org 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Nukes are very useful... to deter global powers from waging global wars or to keep someone from full out destroying your country. That's what kept global powers from waging full out wars for the better part of a century now and stick to small scale conflicts and proxy wars.

They are however indeed useless in a conflict with a direct neighbour in an area of only several hundred kilometers rught at your border. Tactical nukes will not be used out of the blue because it instantly escalates to a global war then. They will also not be used on territory you plan to occupy and use for yourself. Strategic long range nukes are a deterrent to not let a conflict escalate to a global war, sure.

Are you assuming that Ukraine would have nuked Moscow after warning them against occopying parts of their territory? Then you are probably now wondering why the hell Russia did not nuke Kyiv when they invaded the Kursk region... Yeah, exactly. Because you simply don't use nukes close to home ever unless you can live with the next stage of global nuclear war. Not the small ones because their value does not compare to the massive negatives of the following escalation, not the big ones because that nuclear war is literally the end. Not only for those who started it.

Russia has consistently talked about launching nukes in response to various red lines, and their sabre rattling has been effective in moderating everyone's tone even when it was blatant lies.

I don't take seriously the idea of either side actually using nukes, and I never suggested it. The point I was making was about the damage it does to disarmament efforts when, say, a smaller nation gives up its nukes in exchange for assurances and is then invaded by one of the very signatories of those assurances.