Yes, I was also around for the Bush presidency, and I'm pretty sure. Bush had some pretty shit policies but was also very much an establishment republican who was not going to fundamentally change the system. He didn't have a rabid cult of personality surrounding him. There was no Project 2025-type plan to turn America into a theocracy. Bush never "joked" about becoming a dictator, becoming president for life or putting his political opponents into jail. He didn't threaten his NATO allies with letting Russia invade them.

I could go on, but the point is: America didn't just elect another conservative who will try to roll back LGBT rights, it elected a Mussolini-style Fascist. Thinking "Oh we'll just vote him out in 4 years" is... optimistic.

This presidency is a revenge tour for Trump, he even stated so himself. Millions are getting deported. Environmental regulations, human rights and workers' rights are stated to be discarded.

Yeah, 2003 seemed pretty reasonable.

In 2003/2004 would people have said the same thing compared to Reagan, or Nixon? That compared to Bush, Reagan seems downright reasonable, or compared to Bush, Nixon seams down right reasonable

They did and, other than Reagan, they were right.

I remember a lot of protests against The Patriot Act? And against Guantanamo Bay?

Which are still intolerable atrocities that would never be allowed in a well-functioning society.

I remember a lot of right-wing patriotism sweeping through the USA and people being condemned for not falling in line

Yes, there WAS a lot, but nowhere near as much as now.

Are you sure 2003/2004 was a more reasonable time?

Absolutely. 100%. 2004 conservatism is to today's fascism what sticks of dynamite are to thermonuclear weapons.

I was 100% with you and thought W. Bush was a worse president than Trump, all the way up until January 6. All the ramifications of it are still playing out so it remains to be seen which is worse.

Dubbya basically set in motion all the problems we face today in his failed response to 9/11 - instability and refugees from the middle east and 'drill baby drill' environmental catastrophe. We're still suffering the consequences.

Trump and anti-democracy and January 6 - the reprocussions are still playing out. His loss on Tuesday could have done a lot to right the wrongs and stop the bleeding. But now they're going to be supercharged and the most important thing we can do is ensure that a fair vote can happen in 2026 and 2028. If that doesn't happen we're lost, and the deck will be heavily stacked against us.

I wonder if it felt that way because we were attacked and it was an attack against all Americans , Not X segment of Americans.

So it kinda felt like we had very different ideas of how to proceed, but it did feel like everyone was sincere about protecting the country together.

Clearly the policy and tract the country took has been haunting us ever since, but I never got the impression that the politicians in charge were 100% self serving and had ulterior motives.