this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2023
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Hi all,

I'm seeing a lot of hate for capitalism here, and I'm wondering why that is and what the rationale behind it is. I'm pretty pro-capitalism myself, so I want to see the logic on the other side of the fence.

If this isn't the right forum for a political/economic discussion-- I'm happy to take this somewhere else.

Cheers!

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[โ€“] ExecutiveStapler@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Who trampled on the Russian tomatoes? (Don't say the Nazis, they trampled on everyone's tomatoes including their own) For Russia, there was some small scale support for the whites during their civil war, but otherwise trade between the Soviets and the west increased year by year during the NEP period until Stalin purposely contracted it (if someone knows more about this period, feel free to correct me. I'm working off of information I learned in classes years ago and this article that matches with what I remember). I'd propose that the Soviet issues were internal due to blindly ideological governance that crippled their economy and society. They didn't have to make such an insane number of nukes, create the culture that caused Chernobyl, nor invade Afghanistan.

Otherwise, who trampled the Mainland Chinese tomatoes? They basically won their civil war, their only issue was blind allegiance to chairman Mao that resulted in disaster after disaster. The West didn't force them to try the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, the Down to the Countryside 'Movement,' nor the One Child Policy. The CCP did those to themselves, and they only found success once Mao died and they made their economy more capitalistic.

And then once more, who trampled on the North Korean tomatoes? At the beginning of their war, they tried to crush the South's tomatoes until a UN authorized force pushed them to the Chinese border and then a Chinese force counterbalanced to the current borders, but otherwise the North was economically better off once the stalemate began (the Japanese centered their industrial developments in the north). North Korea failed because of dramatic mismanagement and a ideology of constant militarism while the South, with ups and downs, prospered.

Sure, there were military actions, police actions, and garden trampling that harmed both sides during the Cold War, but you can't just blame your enemy for beating you, you have to recognize why you lost.

[โ€“] NewDark@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In regards to the USSR, it's probably the most complex example, but if you don't think there was plenty of pressure on Russia from the West that wasn't direct warfare (cold war as an incredibly basic example). Here's a fun video on reasons why it fell that isn't through a US centric lens

China is also complicated an I'm not going to speak to it.

But North Korea? You mean the country we absolutely turned to rubble through bombing campaigns to destroy ~85% of it's buildings, and then on top of it cutting them off from most of the rest of the world from trade? That's probably the most prime example of how we've trampled a country. Blowback has a deep dive into the history there and it's great.

And here's a holistic video in case you care to hear the exact argument broken down

[โ€“] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 1 points 1 year ago

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