this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2024
379 points (97.7% liked)

Europe

1555 readers
383 users here now

News and information from Europe πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡Ί

(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)

Rules (2024-08-30)

  1. This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
  2. No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
  3. Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
  4. No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism.
  5. Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
  6. If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
  7. Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in !yurop@lemm.ee. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
  8. Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
  9. No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)

(This list may get expanded when necessary.)

We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.

If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.

If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the mods: @federalreverse@feddit.org, @poVoq@slrpnk.net, or @anzo@programming.dev.

founded 4 months ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Imperor@lemmy.world 133 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (7 children)

Anyone who might be surprised that Germany is so low here, Germans are always surprised people think it would be very high.

There is a simple reason, too: Auto-Lobby. Our car manufacturers are very powerful in politics and public infrastructure is heavily underfunded.

Funnily enough, highways and other roads are also crumbling, so good luck to the car makers when there is less and less road to drive those precious machines on.

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 73 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

I would say the root cause of the DB issues is rather the failed attempt to privatise it, which caused ~~years~~ decades of infrastructure underinvestment to cook the books to make it look more attractive to private investors.

But of course the strong car lobby also played a role in that.

[–] GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip 13 points 3 months ago

This is the main reason. While the car lobby is no doubt dangerously powerful they are also heavily dependant on the cargo department of DB. A massive amount of industrial commodities is moved by the railway network and not the ubiquitous trucks. If they worked to defund the railway infrastructure they would eventually hurt their own supply lines.

[–] miridius@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

I think you're both right

[–] daw@feddit.org 1 points 3 months ago (2 children)

There are no private investors. Its 100% owned by the state...

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 21 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Yes, hence me saying "failed". They cooked the books because they wanted to put it up for sale on the stock market, but in the end that never happend for a lot of different reasons.

[–] daw@feddit.org 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

They cooked the books, but not for potential investors. At least not in the last two decades.

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 4 points 3 months ago

If I recall correctly the last serious attempt to privatise it was shortly before the 2008 financial crisis, so I guess you are almost correct with two decades. Time flies...

[–] trollercoaster@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

But they are organised as and run like a private company and driven purely by short term profits and will pay big time bonuses to their executives (usually ex polititians) every year.

[–] daw@feddit.org 2 points 3 months ago

Yes, the point I was trying to make was not that being owned by the state makes it work better: in fact I think it is absurd that it is a "for profit" company which has no incentive to make profit as it's owner will never hold them accountable by letting them go bankrupt, as that is not an option. We have the worst of both worlds, almost as if public necessities ("Daseinsvorsorge") and natural monopolies do not make sense to run "privately"....

[–] Strider@lemmy.world 16 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Additionally, the number presented is most likely too high, since it's more important to tune the numbers than to provide good service.

Example: a late train can be taken out of service and replaced, or even not. Voila! Not late anymore.

I wish this wasn't the reality.

[–] zaphod@sopuli.xyz 6 points 3 months ago

France does the same, a cancelled train isn't delayed according to SNCF.

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 6 points 3 months ago

There is also the infamous -Wende (turnaround). In order to not be late anymore some trains just turned around two or three stops short of the actual destination.

[–] dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net 11 points 3 months ago

The American auto industry effectively killed trains here. I’d love to have often-late high speed trains instead of β€œyou want to go from Texas to Chicago? Fly, drive, or go fuck yourself.”

[–] RestrictedAccount@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I spent nearly a quarter century working for a German company.

The Germans think about the Swiss the same way we think about the Germans.

[–] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 1 points 3 months ago

Who is "we" in that sentence?

[–] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I mean you are still building massive highways. Most european countries aren’t building highways anymore.

[–] leisesprecher@feddit.org 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Not really. It's mostly maintenance and only a few new projects due to shifting demand.

[–] federalreverse@feddit.org 2 points 3 months ago

Germany is still expanding highways both in length and in with rather than doing maintenance because it's easier to sell politically.

[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 3 points 3 months ago

America is much the same in that regard. We have probably the most laughably terrible train network, both in terms of freight and passenger, for any western country, especially relative to any meaningful metric like GDP. It's down to a noxious mix of car lobby, racism, and stupid policy choices (single family housing exclusive zoning, parking minimums, etc) all applied consistently over 70 years. In spite of all that, and in spite of increasingly enormous re-investment packages, our roads never really seem to get much better. I hope it's the same in Germany, but I've noticed that having better mobility solutions than cars and planes only is quickly becoming a pretty mainstream position in the US.

[–] EherNicht@feddit.org 1 points 3 months ago

There will be more road. Similarly to the US tho, the (former) infrastructure is falling apart as road infrastructure is also underfunded (partly due to new construction like lane addition or construction of new Autobahnen).