this post was submitted on 05 Mar 2024
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So I've realized that in conversations I'll use traditional terms for men as general terms for all genders, both singularly and for groups. I always mean it well, but I've been thinking that it's not as inclusive to women/trans people.

For example I would say:

"What's up guys?" "How's it going man?" "Good job, my dude!โ€ etc.

Replacing these terms with person, people, etc sounds awkward. Y'all works but sounds very southern US (nowhere near where I am located) so it sounds out of place.

So what are some better options?

Edit: thanks for all the answers peoples, I appreciate the honest ones and some of the funny ones.

The simplest approach is to just drop the usage of guys, man, etc. Folks for groups and mate for singular appeal to me when I do want to add one in between friends.

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[โ€“] dandroid@sh.itjust.works 19 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Dude.

I'm a dude. He's a dude, She's a dude. We're all dudes.

[โ€“] nadiaraven@lemmy.world 17 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Trans women sometimes feel uncomfortable when they are called dude, so if you're aiming for maximum comfort of people, dude is not a great choice.

[โ€“] dandroid@sh.itjust.works 17 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Well, to make a more serious comment instead of just quoting an old song from an old movie, it's definitely most important to call people by pronouns that they prefer. That's the number 1 priority.

That said, I have some trans friends who don't like gender neutral pronouns in general. One in particular has explained how much she has gone through to be able to identify as a woman, and using "they" instead of "she" makes her feel like she still isn't a woman.

So the real answer is there's no one word that will make everyone happy. They best way to do that is to ask people the pronouns they prefer.

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[โ€“] Gabu@lemmy.ml 19 points 8 months ago (12 children)

"Guys" is gender neutral already...

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[โ€“] Nemo@midwest.social 18 points 8 months ago (4 children)
  • cousins

  • friends

  • y'all

  • neighbors

  • folks

  • party party people

  • fellow-travellers

and, of course

  • fam
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[โ€“] OhNoMoreLemmy@lemmy.ml 17 points 8 months ago

Is buddy really a problem?

I'd be more worried that someone thinks I'm treating them like a dog, than a man.

[โ€“] frefi@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 8 months ago

for singular use boo works, and plural you can say "hey, fuckos"

[โ€“] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (7 children)

Guys is 100% gender neutral.

Also, can't go wrong with the old standby "Stay Fresh, Cheesebags!"

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[โ€“] anarchost@lemm.ee 16 points 8 months ago (4 children)

You're asking about a collective and also a singular...

Just in general I'd say that if you're trying to quit a habit around trans women, go the extra mile and quit it around cis ones too. For the collective "hey guys" I have no one-word replacement ("folks/folx" sounds equally southern and somehow more cringe), but you could replace the whole phrase with "hey everybody", "hi gang", "how are you all", or just "hey".

When speaking to any woman, I would advise against calling them "dude" or "man." Full stop. No further thoughts necessary on that one.

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[โ€“] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 16 points 8 months ago (1 children)
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[โ€“] Agent641@lemmy.world 16 points 8 months ago (1 children)
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[โ€“] TheAlbatross@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

English is sorely lacking a second person plural. Y'all fills that gap well and should be adopted over other regional suggestions such as the Jersey youse guys or the dreaded Philly... yinz.

I'd avoid using "dude" as I've heard this specifically as an example that bothered some women.

Y'all is great. I use it often in the North East and only one schmuck ever said anything about it.

Buddy works, but comes off kind of aggressive towards strangers, same with pal or pals, but that may be my own regional affectation showing off.

[โ€“] anarchost@lemm.ee 12 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

"Buddy" elicits so many conflicting feelings in me.

Encino Man "buuuuudy"

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[โ€“] BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 8 months ago
[โ€“] Wes_Dev@lemmy.ml 15 points 8 months ago

I bit the bullet and was the cringy person at work who said "peeps". After a few months of do this, it was amusing to see the word spread until my boss's boss started saying peeps in meetings.

[โ€“] SecretPancake@feddit.de 15 points 8 months ago (3 children)
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[โ€“] onlooker@lemmy.ml 15 points 8 months ago

Fellow bipedal meat-things.

[โ€“] MargotRobbie@lemm.ee 14 points 8 months ago

"Mate" is always a good option, I wish it's used more universally in the States, too.

[โ€“] Saigonauticon@voltage.vn 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I just omit the unnecessary words or use their name. That works OK, although I'm awful with names so usually it just becomes "Good job!" or "What's up?".

Funny story time: in English I find this is not so bad. In French it's worse. In Vietnamese it's awful. We have dozens of pronouns. They're not only mostly gendered, but contain information about their age and perceived status relative to you. It's a 3-dimensional matrix where the axes are approximately gender, age/hierarchy, and degree of relation (inlaws/blood relations/strangers). You even get a different word for yourself in some of these situations. Then sometimes there's a numerical rank inside each pronoun e.g. male uncle, my spouse's family, 3rd oldest.

The language is already at maximum pronoun burden. Honestly it would just be easier if we called each other 'human' or 'comrade' or 'citizen' or something equally encompassing. It's exhausting as a non-native speaker (and you are not ever allowed to use their names, that's considered super rude).

[โ€“] Squirrel@thelemmy.club 13 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Peeps

Note: You will sound like a tool if you say this.

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[โ€“] Arghblarg@lemmy.ca 13 points 8 months ago (1 children)
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[โ€“] 58008@lemmy.world 12 points 8 months ago

My darlings, tell me everything.

[โ€“] thorbot@lemmy.world 12 points 8 months ago (3 children)
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[โ€“] craig9@lemm.ee 12 points 8 months ago

My go-to is folks, but 1000 others have mentioned that already. So I will throw in "people".

"Hey people, how's it going?"

That works for me

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