this post was submitted on 17 Jun 2023
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Like many, when the recent defederation went down, I decided to create a couple other logins and see what the wider fediverse has had to say about it.

I've been, honestly, a bit surprised by the response. A huge portion of people seem to be misidentifying communities as belonging to "lemmy" as opposed to the instances that host them. I think a big portion of this seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of what this software is, and how it works.

For example, lemmy.world users are pissed at being de-federated because it excludes them from Beehaw communities. This outrage seems wholly placed in the concept that Beehaw's communities are "owned" by the wider fediverse. This is blatantly not how lemmy works. Each instance hosts a copy of federated instances' content for their users to peruse. The host (Beehaw in this example) remains being the source of truth for these communities. As the source of truth, Beehaw "owns" the affected communities, and it seems people have not realized that.

This also has wider implications for why one might want to de-federate with a wider array of instances. Lets say I have a server in a location that legally prohibits a certain type of pornography. If my users subscribe to other instances/communities that allow that illegal pornography, I (the server admin) may find myself in legal jeopardy because my instance now holds a copy of that content for my users.

Please keep this in mind as you enjoy your time using Lemmy. The decisions that you make affect the wider instance. As you travel the fediverse, please do so with the understanding that your interactions reflect this instance. More than anything, how can we spread this knowledge to a wider audience? How can we make the fediverse and how it works less confusing to people who aren't going to read technical documentation?

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[–] maynarkh@feddit.nl 8 points 2 years ago (3 children)

A huge portion of people seem to be misidentifying communities as belonging to “lemmy” as opposed to the instances that host them.

The thing that I think didn't sit right with a lot of people is that Beehaw's admins apparently said (I haven't seen it first hand) that they see a future in refederating with Beehaw's communities being kept private, only accessible to Beehaw users, while Beehaw users would get access to the wider Fediverse.

To be honest, I feel that it's Beehaw's prerogative to grant or revoke access to anyone on other instances, but also I wouldn't be surprised that in turn other instances would not federate with an instance that would not give access to other instances' users for its communities.

[–] freeman@lemmy.pub 4 points 2 years ago (8 children)

That’s sounds…not possible. At least at the current iteration of the software. It also seems like kinda the opposite of what the fediverse was meant to be.

I just looked at one of my communities and the only main setting is whether mods can post. You can’t set perms at the community level to exclude certain users or make them private

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[–] jeena@jemmy.jeena.net 7 points 2 years ago

I think if every instance was a one person instance then the mods would not have the hammer sollution to defederate thousends of people at once. Back in the days they would ban a IP range, it's simmilar.

But to not need to do that, there need to be better tools available for them, we're waiting for those now.

[–] unknowing8343@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Instances hold copies of other instances' communities? I thought it was simply an API call to the other server. Not an expert, tho.

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[–] foxuin@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It will take more time to establish norms. Other instances will certainly defederate and folks will become more accustomed to what that defederation means.

Instances are very vulnerable right now. There's not much ability to trust or predict how the owners of your instance will behave, because there isn't a long history of past behavior to look back on, so understandably some users will be frustrated by the lack of stability.

I do see one huge issue with how people are being instructed to join lemmy, which is that most resources tell people it doesn't matter which instance they join. That becomes fundamentally untrue with defederation.

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