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I don’t disagree that there are evident growing pains, but I think a lot of people leaving Reddit have their head screwed on ass backwards about what “leaving” implies and demands.

Many of the redditors trying the fediverse aren’t trying the fediverse. They’re looking for Reddit, and nothing is ever going to be more Reddit than Reddit. You have to accept that the technology, terms, and culture may be different.

Many people are leaving Rome expecting to arrive in Carthage. What we have instead is a camp. The fediverse is still very small, new, and under developed. The moderation tools and culture are not established. Reddit went through years of growing pains to get to where it is now.

So yeah, you left something people put a lot of time and energy into, of course it’s going to suck a bit for a while. But it comes back to why you left - was it because of the interface changes, or the implied constitutional changes?

If you left because of Interface changes alone, you will not last. You want to consume, and not build.

Otherwise, If you’re like me, you’re sorta tired of putting effort into communities that get dumped on by corporate interests, and who are only willing to work towards safety so long as it furthers the bottom line. The fediverse kinda sucks right now, but it offers the promise of building something that may actually serve its community rather than a VC.

Like fixing a house you own versus an apartment you rent. Reddit will always be limited by what its share price demands. The fediverse will not be. I think it’s worth fighting for here rather than Reddit or other mainstream platforms.

It was my fear as well when I came over to Lemmy. Which is why I was seduced and ended up applying for Beehaw. It's just the way it is on internet right now, when there is an alternative platform to something that is mainstream, it is most likely to be filled with the worst people on earth.

Remember Bitchute? Remember Odysee? Those YouTube alternatives? Well, who's on there? Nazis. It's just Nazis. Especially the first one. On the second one, Odysee, it's Nazis and Linux people (not saying there is an overlap between the two).

Back when I was still down the alt-right pipeline on YouTube years ago, I remember going over on Bitchute because lots of people were talking about it. And, once I did, all I was met with, were people who were banned off of YouTube. You know, because YouTube had a anti-conservatism bias.. so they said.... Well, in a truly shocking twist: there were good reasons why these people were banned.

I went there and I remember thinking that these people were fucking nuts... And that was quite something, because I would later realize, that the people I was watching on YouTube, were Nazis too. The difference is, they were still pretending not to be, they were trying to catch on a larger audience and also trying not to get banned. Moderation kept them in line. Kind of. But on Bitchute? With basically no moderation, all pretenses were dropped and you could see people being openly Nazis and as antisemitic as you can imagine.

But I believe this time is different.

Until now, a ton of those alternatives to websites, were designed with free speech absolutism in mind. You can come on here, and say anything, and we won't do shit about it. Which basically means, there is no fucking moderation. Which of course is going to result in a bunch of troglodytes saying horrendous shit. Kind of like when Elon, the Muskrat took over Twitter to restore free speech, and the whole site was just spammed with the n-word.

And those types of alternatives still exist, look at Kick, the Twitch ~~ripoff~~ alternative. Who's on there? Nazis. Crypto scammers. And xQc, now, apparently. Is it going to turn into a shit show? No. It already is!

Now, what makes places like Mastodon and Lemmy different? These aren't just alternatives. They're frameworks. Bases on which communities can be built. With their own rules and moderation. Which is why I came here, to this specific instance. It is not just a place to read stuff and that's it. No, the idea is to build an actual community, it isn't just another "Free speech, come say all of your favorite racial slurs" zone.

Beehaw has a clear vision of what it wants to be, and enforces it. The defederation from Lemmy.world is a perfect example of this. "It is turning into a shit show, we don't want that here, therefore, we are branching off and separating ourselves from it to ensure a safe place for our community."

I understand where you're coming from. And I too have worries. However, I do believe in this one. Is it going to be the new Reddit? Absolutely not, it is always going to be somewhat of a niche platform. And you know what? I don't mind it. I don't want this to be Reddit, I want it to grow beyond this and be its own thing. Let it grow into what it wants to be.

I think we are making a huge mistake by coming over from Reddit, and trying to build a new Reddit. It is very much Reddit-like. For sure. But it doesn't have to be just another Reddit. I chose Beehaw specifically for the vision it has for what it wants to be. I didn't pick it because it sounded nice and the other instances were full, I chose it because of it's rules and ideals, and what these meant to me.

To me, this is something new. Not just an alternative platform. And I think you should look at it this way.

If having a grand old time on vacation from negativity and bigotry makes me a snowflake, I'll be a snowflake. Beehaw is the bee's knees thus far.

I wish you provided specific examples of this behavior because otherwise it just sounds like a doom and gloom post. I'm personally having lots of fun and while I've run into some people that obviously aren't here to build a community, generally I like the vibe and overall excitement in the air. If there really is a bunch of people trying to ruin it, I think it's in everyone's best interest to stop it before it gets out of control.

Voat became such a garbage site. It was (barely) tolerable in its early days but with the influx of the reddit refugees from the FPH and "Chimpire" subs, it started down the path to trash fire. My favorite (sarcasm) part was how the racists even attacked the Voat creator & original boss because he was Muslim. Yet the owner was such a tool that he shrugged it off with "Free Speech."

By the time it failed -- and yes, I know that there's a version of Voat still around but it's like 300 white supremacists all doing a giant circle jerk -- there wasn't a place on Voat that wasn't a toxic cesspool.

I recently told this tale but I'll tell it again: There was a short lived Reddit alternative that closed down for, as best as I can tell, mostly trying to run at just the wrong time. They sounded a lot like Beehaw: Open communication but no hate speech allowed.

They started growing around the time that Reddit was cracking down on the alt-reich subs that were doxxing people and making actual threats of violence, like the_dondon (You know what I mean) and its ilk, plus stomping out the incels. Both groups went crying to Voat. Voat, amusingly, called them all poseurs and downvoted them off the site. So they - especially the alt-reich kids - went to the new site.

The new site handled them with such grace it still boggles my mind. They told them all, basically, "Thanks for coming! It's so nice you want to be here, but, sorry, you're breaking our rules. Here's your hat. So sorry you can't stay with us! We wish you all the best. Bye bye, now!" and deleted all their accounts and the communities they created, and that was that.

It was a cute site and it could have been something nice, but it just didn't fully get off the ground. I feel bad that I cannot remember the name of it.

I agree with most of your post and can relate to the sentiment but I'm very lost on why you actively looked for a negative comment in a sea of positivity just to say you're leaving? no one is forcing you into these spaces, if you wanted to use reddit that is ok 🫤 but beehaw so far has been overwhelmingly positive in comparison and I feel that edit is doing it an injustice (again just my opinion)

You've got a thread full of helpful messages and you're leaving because one of them was mean? And you're going back to Reddit of all places? Good luck I guess.

Maybe my problem is with redditors

Yeah, probably. That site has a problem with racism/sexism/queerphobia because the admins have consistently refused to properly deal with the site's problems for basically its entire existence. I still recall CNN having to goad Reddit into banning the jailbait subreddit.

but at the very least reddit was equipped to keep the dumbest of dumbasses out of visibility.

lmao, I wish mate. It's less of an issue in smaller niche subs, but the defaults/large subs have been garbage for a long time.

At this point, I already have a fairly negative view of the fediverse.

The Reddit-like portion is dealing with a bunch of bullshit right now due to the protest and exodus bringing in tens of thousands of users from a website that has a fairly reactionary baseline in the first place. The rest of the Fediverse has largely not been impacted, though. You should try Calckey; it's a Twitter-like platform, but it also has threaded comment replies (it displays differently than Reddit's, though). It'll give you something to do while the dust settles and content moderation on Lemmy/kbin can get sorted.

Yeah, I'm really lost as to what OP is talking about? I've been here since the blackouts and have seen nothing like what they're talking about. The difference between here and Reddit is day and night. I literally saw a post about the former president and people weren't arguing in some knockdown drag out like they would on literally any other social media platform. If there is any toxicity, which of course it's ridiculous to say that there's none, then it be must be rare because I have seen downright amazing interactions and honest and constructive discussions on Lemmy and Kbin. I'm sure there might be cracks in the fediverse and I might see them after the honeymoon phase is over but honestly I think the fediverse is the step in the right direction for the internet as a whole.

I'm **really ** wanting to be nice and approach this site differently so please pardon me if I sound rude but OP sounds like a drama queen. We don't need any of that on this site. I'm glad their gone. People like that are never happy anywhere and just suck the life out of the room like a power vacuum and spit out negative attention right in our faces. They bring it on themselves. Please let me know if I'm off my rocker on this one guys, and gals. I'd love to hear your side of this whole thing but that's just my general gut feeling.

yeah, I think I’m done here.

Okay, bye! ;)

fediverse is dealing with a large influx of users thats way bigger than anything theyve had to deal with so far

this coupled with the fact that you can join in on from any of the sites if you are banned from a specific instance means moderation has not been able to keep up

the devs of the various sites are working in improving their teams and tools to better deal with the moderation required, its likely a temporary issue

for now make as much use of the block button as possible, both for specific people and whole communities that seem to exist solely to be assholes

on top of that, beehaw has recently defederated with two of the biggest instances, lemmy.world and shitjustworks, meaning that moderation will probably be able to keep up more again

Voat was always designed to be a refugee for the lowest type of scum of Reddit. It never turned into anything that it wasn't meant to be from day 1.

If you see transphobic comments in trans positive communities then I'd just report them. All instances of the fediverse, especially the major ones like kbin and Lemmy, have seen a very large influx of new people, postings and comments, as well as the odd performance issues. Those things will settle down with time. So far I cannot really say that I see kbin to be particularly hateful. There's a lot of lgbt friendly magazines popping up on the main page and generally the tone has been overall friendly.

Beehaa literally defederated from other instances because of negativity so I think this has the best chance of working in terms of positivity. Also most people switching to voat did so due to "free speech" which was just another way of being mean. Voat was also a mere copy, the fediverse is a completely different tech

it seemed any article having to do with Ukraine had a lot of pro-Russian posts.

Yes, Lemmy is rather notorious for its tankie problem. Best to avoid instances that allow that behavior.

Part of the reason I ended up here is because one user told me “If you need a safe space, you should go over to beehaw with all the other snowflakes.”

I've noticed that people who call others “snowflakes” are usually projecting.

at the very least reddit was equipped to keep the dumbest of dumbasses out of visibility.

I strongly disagree with this point. On Reddit, running into awful people was a common occurrence, and I was unable to block them for some reason. On Beehaw, I rarely encounter them and am not forced to tolerate their awfulness. It's a major improvement.

One of the first posts I clicked on lemmy was about AI or something like it in the technology magazine on beehaw. It's was a normal text but underneath the text illegal images popped in. That was a harrowing first experience. I just reported it and it was purged and the user banned. I wont the trolls win, I'll rather help keep communities clean.

Dude it seriously fucks me up that the Voat thing was almost 10 years ago. It feels like it was just a couple of years ago.

yo what am I missing with that edit? you tagged yourself and then engaged the Universal Reactionary Pushback Defense. What were you trying to do with that?

Can you see what instance these transphobic comments are coming from? I have an inkling it might be some cesspit like exploding-heads.... they probably need to start getting defederated.

A lot of refugees from major platforms are alt-right trolls, so they are going to want to be in whatever space they can claim. I'm hoping there will be enough non trolls with this exodus, but time will tell.

Could you point me to the anti trans comments on kbin? As a kbinaut I'd like to do my part and downvote & report them.

I've found that kbin is a pretty chill community, personally, but I must have missed that thread.

Anyway, yes, I think beehaw could be an excellent place for you. They actively try to keep assholes out, and they try to foster a community that's thoughtful and insightful. I think they're doing a pretty good job so far.

Not condoning bigotry, but it kind of sounds like you are saying you prefer echo chambers. It is healthy to see opinions you disagree with, even from bigots. Seeing opinions you disagree with allows for critical thinking about why you disagree. Even though ignorance is bliss, it is still ignorance.

I also think the sample size fallacy may come in to play here. i.e. comparison of billions of users (reddit) to tens of thousands (lemmy - post migration, if I understand correctly, previously lemmy was in the thousands user pre migration from reddit).

The defining characteristic of these failed Reddit alternatives like Voat is that the communities that drove their growth were very polarized and often hateful. If your hate sub gets banned and your community moves somewhere else as a consequence, your platform is going to end up with a toxic core audience that are not inclusive and make it impossible to grow.

The growth of Lemmy (and Beehaw) being a reaction to Reddit's shutdown of third party apps is exactly why it has a chance of taking off. It's not a couple of fringe Reddit subs that moved to Lemmy, but rather users from all sorts of subs. The polarization isn't there because 3rd party app users are a diverse audience that are probably representative of all Reddit users. This could actually be a huge problem for Reddit in the long run. If Lemmy and Beehaw end up having better vibes and communities with less astroturing, they'll continue to draw more people in.

Since having left Reddit I've been spending a lot of time on Kbin reading through all kinds of posts. While I'm sure that there are bad eggs everywhere you go, I haven't seen much hateful posts/comments. But then again, maybe I've just missed those

Still we need to stay vigilant and report content that does not belong here

This will sound very pessimistic, but I think what you are witnessing is a more accentuated version of reality.

It's more intense for a number of reasons (it takes less dedication to spread hate online, these communities are small so moderation isn't as effective, the userbase is small so a few users make a bigger splash, communities of this technical nature have a historical lineage that selects for a certain strain of uncritical laissez-faire individualism, etc), but they are nothing that is totally alien to the rest of a given society.

Reality won't let us catch a break, we are forced to actively maintain the good stuff at any given moment.

Well i mean voat was a non-starter. I was there. Its creation was the tale as old as time, whiny toxic users complaining about "censorship" as whiny toxic people tend to do. I feel like comparing the fatpeoplehate lynch mob calling ellen pao "chairman pao" to the community's hatred of reddit's IPOification very bad faith. Lemmy is incredibly young which means its tools arent robust yet. It also means the devs(which given they had a slur filter is streets ahead of early reddit admins philosophy) have to battle bad actors and develop weapons and policies to combat them. I've done it before, it's difficult. Give it time.

I think it just needs to grow and you need to find a community that fits for you and your values.

Maybe beehaw could be it for you, they defederate a lot of stuff that is more "mean".

Any place where anyone can register for an account without much of a background check and anonymity is doomed to become full of shit in due time. Hence active moderation is a very important aspect of Reddit or any social media platform.

Unfortunately it is still early days for lemmy or kbin and the moderation tools are yet to mature. There are a few bad post on this account but I don’t think it is full doom and gloom.

I am more in a wait and watch situation and will see how it goes in a few months before taking a call.