this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2024
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Privacy

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I am a long term GrapheneOS user and would like to talk about it. r/privacy on the redditland blocks custom OS discussions which I think is very bad for user privacy, and I hope this post will be useful to anyone who are in the hunt for better privacy.

Nowadays smartphones are a much bigger threats to our privacy and Desktop systems, and unfortunately manufacturers has designed them to be locked down devices with no user freedom. You can't just "install Linux" on most smartphones and it is horrible. And most preloaded systems spy on us like crazy. That was why I specifically bought a pixel and loaded GOS onto it.

According to https://grapheneos.org/features , they start from base AOSP's latest version, imptoves upon it's security and significantly hardens it. There's hardened_malloc to.prevent against exploitation, disabling lots of debugging features, disabling USB-c data, hardening the Linux kernel and system apps etc. They even block accessing the hardware identifiers of the phone so that apps cannot detect whqt phone you're using. That means with Tor and zero permissions given, apps are anonymous.

Compatibility with apps are best in Custom ROMs but there are still that can't work, especially if they enforce device integrity. Very few apps usually enforce that tho. Also their community isn't the friendliest but you can get help. Just don't try and engage too much or have too many debates.

Anyone else here use GrapheneOS, or any other privacy ROMs? What is your experience? Do you disagree on any point? Let's have a discussion!

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[–] Charger8232@lemmy.ml 7 points 18 hours ago

I have the pleasure of using GrapheneOS. I can't imagine using anything else. It was also the first (widely used) custom Android distribution to adopt Android 15. As far as I can tell, almost no others support Android 15 yet.

[–] root@lemmy.world 3 points 16 hours ago

I had daily drove it for years, but recently started testing the water with iOS. Still have GOS on my secondary devices though.

[–] theroff@aussie.zone 4 points 17 hours ago (10 children)

I use GrapheneOS but I don't like how Google Play-centric it is. It is geared towards people installing their "normal" apps with the GrapheneOS special sauce sandboxing. No F-Droid by default where all of the FOSS apps are.

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[–] theskyisfalling@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Ive used it for around a year and a half and never had any issues. My banking app stopped working after about 8 months but I just log in via a browser and it hasn't effected my life at all.

For anyone considering the move here is a list of bank apps and their current working status as I know that is a big consideration people worry over.

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[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 21 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yep. Been using it for about 2 years now. So far no issues except amazon prime but they gave me adds sufficiently annoying that i finally got around to setting up jellyfin. Been able to solve pretty much all my issues with dr gpt.

Every time i see someone posting about a new mobile phone exploit i get immense joy scrolling down through comments and finding someone posting the fact that graphene patched it 3 years ago and recommended a patch to google who have yet to implement it into base android.

[–] Darth_Vader__@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

Cellebrite and the new Grayjack or something both has zero ways to crack a GOS phone 🔥

[–] jjlinux@lemmy.ml 6 points 20 hours ago

I've been on GrapheneOS for 4 years or so. I've tried CalyxOS every now and then, but always end up coming back to GrapheneOS. I find it simple, private, secure and free of BS. CalyxOS does come with some stuff preinstalled, which doesn't really appeal to me, and I trust the sandboxes Google Play model much more that MicroG.

About the devs, I really haven't had any issues that I have not been able to resolve myself, so my interaction with the is non-existing. I have read some posts with interactions with them, and they do seem to be hostile towards anything that is not 100% aligned with their train of thought, which I find stupid, to say the least. But regardless of how rude they may be, I feel GOS literally has no competition in the Android landscape in terms of privacy and security.

[–] Neptr@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 21 hours ago

My recommendation is GOS if you care about out of box experience and using gapps, DivestOS if you care about degoogling and removal of proprietary code. Both are hardened.

[–] Object@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (9 children)

Other than Starbucks app and VoLTE stuff, I haven't encountered an issue yet. Somehow all my banking apps work. The profile feature alone makes it worth it. They also recently increased the number of profiles that can be run in parallel, too.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

How do you like the cross profile notifications? What's your workflow? Do you have multiple profiles active at the same time?

[–] Object@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I have one "Daily" profile where I keep thing I don't mind showing others, and many other private profiles. Each private profile has a unique environment I find myself using every now and then, so it's a bit like VMs. For example, one profile has VPN on 24/7, another with Orbot, and another with a non-functional VPN (which is basically no network). It enforces the rule so that I don't fuck things up by accident. Primary profile is just a package manager for me.

I have multiple profile active, but it's usually just for long downloads. It was annoying whenever I go back to a profile expecting some long job to be done, only to find out it got killed 10 seconds after starting it. Or worse, finding out my Daily profile got killed.

I don't get many cross profile notifications because I almost never receive one outside of the Daily profile.

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[–] Gebruikersnaam@lemmy.ml 4 points 20 hours ago (3 children)

Is the camera still good on Graphene? It is pretty much the only thing that holds my Oneplus 6T back.

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[–] jet@hackertalks.com 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (18 children)

https://www.privacyguides.org/en/android/distributions/#aosp-derivatives

https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

I am a GOS user, it just works, so I don't really think about it. It's very nice to have storage and contact scopes.

My only complaint is I can't share a VPN over hotspot or tethering, which is very useful for a travel router device (to make all traffic look like it's coming from the phone). (Lineage and calyxos have this)

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[–] communism@lemmy.ml 7 points 23 hours ago

Last 4 or so phones have all been GrapheneOS (I'm not buying new phones all the time to be clear; I use phones till they break; I'm just a long-time user) and yeah I've really had no problems to speak of. I currently have a separate profile with Play services for certain apps, and also just to isolate non-privacy-respecting apps that I have to have installed for whatever reason.

Almost all the apps I use are FOSS apps who are aware that a significant amount of their userbase will be using various AOSP forks so I've not run into any app compatibility issues. Even back when I used banking apps, I'd used 4 different banks' apps on GrapheneOS and all of them worked completely fine. Now I don't have a banking app because I won't install proprietary software unless I actually have to for some reason, and I can bank on the web just fine.

[–] Nicro@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

I would absolutely buy a Pixel, if only they supported sd-cards. I get that Google is pushing cloud-storage. If I smash my phone on the sidewalk, I still want to have a local storage, I can take out and thus make live backups to. There are just some features Pixels lack and privacy shouldn't lock you out of them.

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[–] Samsy@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

I was a long time lineageOS user and love the freedom of changing anything. I switched to grapheneOS and like it, but miss some features, that are just pointless and not relatable: no full AMOLED dark mode - the devs said the battery savings between dark and pure dark isn't relevant. and the other thing is: why is the white bar on the bottom not removable?

Because of these things I switched back to lineageOS and realised how dumb it is because of two optical features. GOS is definitely worth to look over two missing features and I switched back to GOS.

Anyway the most interesting transition from an lineage user to an grapheneOS user is, you realise that root isn't useful and more risk than fun.

[–] Darth_Vader__@lemmy.world 3 points 23 hours ago

Yeah GrapheneOS rarely does eye-candy features. They have a very small team so they exclusively work on security features.

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[–] Cris16228@lemmy.today 8 points 1 day ago (10 children)

I would love to buy a pixel to install GrapheneOS but ain't no way I'm giving google money and I don't know where I can buy a brand new pixel. There are currently 3 apps that scare me and not sure if they're even working on GOS and one is my bank app

[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 0 points 8 hours ago (4 children)

I have no problem giving google money to pay for good hardware as lobg as they give me the freedom to do with it as I please.

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[–] Nednarb44@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Getting a used/refurbished one doesn't really give them anything, and actually prevents them from getting data on the next person who would have gotten the used phone and used the stock OS

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[–] crimsoncobalt@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Check out Swappa. They usually have plenty of phones in various condition to pick from.

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[–] Darth_Vader__@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago (6 children)

Regarding banking app, check privsec.dev 's list.

Regarding Pixel, don't see it as giving money to Google, see it as payingnfor good hardware.

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[–] GhiLA@sh.itjust.works 4 points 23 hours ago

I would but my Pixel 6's USB connection is entirely useless. It hasn't successfully connected to a cable in over a year.

I was considering it for my next one, though, whenever that is. Don't really feel the need for an upgrade atm.

[–] ouch@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Personally for me the most important thing in Android is automatic native call recording. If GrapheneOS gets that, I will consider buying a Google Pixel device.

Also, banking and other apps should stop using Play Integrity API.

[–] egerlach@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It's okay if they use the Play Integrity API, they just need to also whitelist the keys that sign the official Graphene OS ROMs. Not that I expect they'll do that, mind you...

[–] ouch@lemmy.world 2 points 16 hours ago

That would leave LineageOS and everything else broken.

I hope EU forces Google to make Android more open again.

[–] capably8341@sh.itjust.works 3 points 23 hours ago

Been using it for about five years now. I absolutely love it. But I will say some of these comments make it sound like it's a little easier than it is. I'd say about 80% of your knowledge from Android will transfer over and just work. But the last 20% is a bit of a learning curve, and will take at least a few weeks to get the hang of.

What I recommended to some of my friends that switched is to get the phone and mess around with it for a few weeks before you switch your sim. Then you'll get the hang of things like alternative app stores and sandboxed play services, and you'll figure out what you can and can't do.

I will say the vast majority of things do work easily because of protection compatibility mode and sandboxed play services. But there will be some things that are just more hassle then they're worth. I find keeping a second device, like a tablet, without a custom ROM makes that stuff easier.

And there are some things that seem impossible to get working properly, at least for me. For example, casting to a TV is basically impossible from what I can tell. Also, tap to pay, even for things like tickets doesn't work (although if you have play services, you can use Google wallet for things with barcodes).

Overall, it's totally worth trying out. Just don't set your expectations too high. You're not getting a completely "just works" experience.

As for other custom ROMs, I've tried CalyxOS and LineageOS for MicroG. I didn't find either of them quite as good, but that was many years ago. Maybe they've gotten better.

[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 day ago

I have used it in the past on a Google Pixel 3A, and I've used Lineage OS for many years as well.

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