this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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I’d argue it’s an objectively true statement that, of all the people alive today, Putin has singlehandedly caused more death and suffering than anyone else. The gap between him and whoever is second is likely orders of magnitude. Yet, when I read discussions about him, Russia, or the war in Ukraine, I almost never see the kind of hateful, nasty, and mean comments directed at him that I regularly see aimed at Trump, Elon, or even ordinary Republican politicians. Why is that?

Bonus question: Why be so nasty about it in the first place? There’s nothing wrong with criticism, but I struggle to understand the need for such meanness. Even when I agree with the sentiment, reading comments like that feels toxic. It poisons my mind too. I don’t like being angry, and I avoid it for practical reasons as well. Anger clouds my judgment, and I think it does the same for others and thus should be avoided.

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[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 day ago

Because Putin is a Russian narcissistic psychopath, whatever he does, it's in line with what you'd expect.

Trump is an American narcissistic psychopath who is selling out the country to the highest bidder. Well, I guess that too is quite on par with what you'd expect from a powerful person in the US...

Never mind

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Putin has singlehandedly caused more death and suffering than anyone else.

And your proof of this is... what?

I almost never see the kind of hateful, nasty, and mean comments directed at him

Because Putin is not a product of the US. Trump is, and, to a large extent, so is Musk.

[–] ArtVandelay@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Yeah as bad as he is, Putin isn't event the worst Russian dictator if we're going by body count. Stalin is still miles ahead.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

Putin is a scumbag, but he still has a long way to go to even beat George Bush Jnr, and he doesn't even scratch the paint on Henry Kissinger's record levels of crimes perpetrated against humanity.

[–] Free_Thoughts 1 points 1 day ago

Stalin is dead

[–] FantasmaNaCasca@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Paraphrasing someone relevant: That's just percentages.

[–] Free_Thoughts 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

And your proof of this is… what?

The war in Ukraine has so far caused around 300k deaths. I can't think of a person alive who'd be responsible for more deaths than that.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The (so-called) "War On Terror" unleashed by George Bush has caused about 900,000 dead. That is just the death DIRECTLY caused by warfare and not the far, far greater number of people dead through indirect causes such as starvation and disease as a result.

Or does it only count in your book when the people dying "look like us"?

[–] Free_Thoughts 1 points 1 day ago

Or does it only count in your book when the people dying “look like us”?

No that totally counts. Why do you need to imply I have some racist agenda here?

[–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 day ago

Closer to home for most people, I guess.

[–] logos@sh.itjust.works 21 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I get angrier when I think of Musk or Trump because, bafflingly, my peers have been fooled into giving these frat boys control over parts of my life.

Not so much Putin. Yet.

Granted he is probably more objectively evil.

[–] thermal_shock@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

Putin also has seemed to stfu and back away, musk and trump just word vomit constantly

[–] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago

Because Russia never pretended not to be a racist hellhole. The US had a good undercover run.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 116 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I don't hear about what Putin is doing every single day. But I talk shit about his bitch-ass too, when he comes up. Fuck Putin. All my homies hate Putin.

[–] dinckelman@lemmy.world 44 points 3 days ago (4 children)

This is the correct answer. Putin has been almost universally hated, even within Russia, for years.

Everyone knows of his election fraud, and the assassinations of political opponents, let alone changing the law in his favor.

It’s just hard for people to have a strong response to what he does, because he spends the vast majority of his time controlling his meat puppets in silence. Meanwhile, both Trump and Musk yap their face off on every occasion

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[–] MNByChoice@midwest.social 58 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Pretty sure you are measuring using the wrong indicators.

There is little reason to talk shit of Putin as he is so hated, just as no reason to discuss water being wet.

Don't start "whataboutism". Those other people suck too. No reason to rank them.

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[–] collapse_already@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago

Because people don't like jumping out of windows to their death.

[–] njm1314@lemmy.world 21 points 2 days ago

I utterly reject your premise

[–] uebquauntbez@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago

Putin killed away all critics early?

[–] Ziggurat@sh.itjust.works 58 points 3 days ago (4 children)

Pretty sure that if you're Russian expressing your hate to Putin would at best put you in trouble, and at worst lead to a slow and painful death in a labour camp.

Don't under-estimate how privileged we are in the West to express our hate for Biden, Macron, Trudeau, Von der Leyen and who ever is the British PM it's changes so fast that I stopped to follow. Without any legal repercussion

[–] Skua@kbin.earth 14 points 3 days ago (1 children)

For what it's worth, the UK's current PM is Keir Starmer. We had an election in the summer and fucking finally kicked out the last lot that had been, amongst their many other efforts to make everything worse, churning through leaders like 3rd century Rome. The new lot have their issues too and it is of course too early at the moment to see if they have actually restored some measure of stability, but there's hope.

[–] naught101@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago

Labour in the UK haven't offered anything new since Tony Blair, and even then it wasn't new in a good way. It almost looked like they might with Corbyn, but they destroyed him themselves.

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[–] rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works 26 points 2 days ago

Quality concern trolling. No notes.

[–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 37 points 3 days ago

Putin is a fascist dictator and you expect him to act that way. Democratically elected politician in democratic country should behave differently and when he doesn't, it obviously result in some outrage.

[–] serpineslair@lemmy.world 23 points 3 days ago

Can't say for sure, but my theory is that people sorta accept that Putin is a hated person. Most people in Western countries - or rather people not in Russia - hate the guy, therefore people don't necessarily feel the need to elaborate on their dislike of him. Whereas people like Trump, after all, he got voted in so clearly some people must like the guy. Therefore people push back harder against him to convice others to do the same.

[–] recapitated@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I think most of who you're hearing are Americans. I might hate Putin with all my heart, but he leads a different country. There isn't "chain of command" between me and him.

Edit/more blathering:

I try to avoid the virulent speech (not always successfully I admit) about Americans' choice in leadership. And to a large degree, at home, even that is outside my "sphere of influence", but I at least have an opportunity to be heard by other parts of the electorate here.

And by the way, I think supporting Trump is supporting Putin. I hope I'm wrong, but I do believe that.

We can piss and moan about Putin (and we do, I'm not sure what you're missing TBH), but investing time and emotional energy, it makes sense to start at home, where we at least should have some influence on self-determination.

[–] Goodmorningsunshine@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

There isn't "chain of command" between me and him.

I mean, sure their is.

Putin

POTUS

SCOTUS

Senate / House

. . . . You.

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[–] remon@ani.social 15 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Pretty sure that's because of what kind of communities you're following (or not following). He absolutly get's that level of hate. Arguable even more as people regularly want him dead and mean it.

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[–] khapyman@sopuli.xyz 10 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It kinda depends on on distance. I live in a country with a long shared border with Russia. Putin, putinists, Ukraine and whatthefuckcanwedoaboutit are regular and well researched debate in here.

In here American politics/elections are not in daily discussions but they surely are a thing to follow/be aware.

So here on Fediverse it is what most active users see and do. It's pretty American (and German). Far away from the war and Putin.

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[–] Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world -2 points 1 day ago

Because Americans are stupid and easy to play

[–] cleverusername@lemm.ee 8 points 3 days ago (4 children)

You'd accidentally fall out a 10th floor window.

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[–] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Found on Lemmy.

But also, Trump and Musk have a much larger following in the western world. And they spout so much idiotic shit that it's hard to believe anyone would actually like them. So it's more fun to dunk on them because your goal isn't to insult them but their followers.

Putin has always been an asshole dictator and everyone always knew him to be an asshole dictator. Hardly anybody likes him in the western world. And if people do like him it's easier to understand because he doesn't show the idiocy we've come to expect from Trump.

[–] Freefall@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

Russia has been a world bad guy for as long as we have been alive and have spent some time now displaying their impotence to the world. USA joining the New Axis Powers as the last superpower makes trump far more dangerous.

[–] LambdaRX@sh.itjust.works 6 points 3 days ago

Because Lemmy is dominated by USA demographic, and Putin is ruling on another continent, so his actions are less impactful for average Americans' lives.

[–] sir_pronoun@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Another fascinating question is why Netanjahu is receiving more hate in the West when they're basically doing the same thing, only Putin has even less of a reason and is killing more people. (Ukrainians didn't massacre Russian civilians or take them hostage, either)

[–] moonlight@fedia.io 6 points 2 days ago

It's because the US is supporting Ukraine in fighting against Putin. In Israel, the US is supporting Netanyahu.

If we were funding Putin's war, you would see a different reaction. There's just less of a reason to complain if we're already against Russia as a country.

[–] Eiri@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 days ago

Expectations.

People don't expect a country that's supposed to be a close ally to do actual pure evil.

Russia has always been in a different category. It's oscillated between being an outright enemy and being a distant, somewhat-ally the West is suspicious of. Either way, Putin was never someone you trust.

When someone betrays your expectations, you have a stronger emotional response.

When you feel like your country is actually helping with evil acts, that's another layer of emotional response.

But if someone you feel like you can't do anything about and has always been bad anyway is being evil, again... Well it's a bit of a "no shit, Sherlock" moment. Doesn't spark anger in quite the same way.

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[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

Maybe because we don't get the psyop that putin is not an evil bastard, so we do not feel wronged when we hear about him.

kim and trump get plenty but since they have been pretty impotent all around they don't get as much play. Its about who seems to be inclined to do harm and has the most potential to.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.ca 4 points 3 days ago

Putin's ability to directly impact American lives is limited. And what he does do (inflation on food, gas) is too far removed for most to understand.

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