Disclaimer since based on my last comment i know the accusation is coming: i voted for claudia already. I think socialists should vote for Claudia if shes available.

I just also think voting is not the ultimate expression of politics and doesnt mean that much. The "its an endorsement" thing is true, but one extra endorsement does not equal one extra dead Palestinian. Thats just magical thinking. (Also, ive tried telling people the endorsement thing because its what changed my mind about lesser evilism, it doesnt work.)

And the idea that every Kamala voter is horrific evil when many are scared, propagandized, gaslit marginalized people doing what they think they need to do to not die is misguided. You guys claim to be the ultimate propaganda understanders but dont seem to understand its power. Are people still responsible for their actions? Sure. Does a vote of all things matter as an action all that much? Lmao fuck no. Its basically pointless.

Like ive actually talked to liberals about their vote. I didnt even have to touch grass to it! Where their coming from is wrong and ive told them that, but ive seen the effect the lesser evilism propaganda has on their mind. they are not coming from a place of evil with their choice Hating, "not forgiving", or throwing in the pit (as ive seriosly seen suggested) the 10s of millions of people who will vote Kamala in November is simply not practical. You cant hate humanity to that extent and organize. And you definitly cant desire to kill that many people lmao.

Also, most of you are ex liberals. Meaning most of you have endorsed war crimes with a vote. Probably worth keeping in mind.

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[–] jack@hexbear.net 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

As someone heavily involved in PSL 's presidential campaign, I can say that OP's position is much closer to the official campaign than people disagreeing. By that I mean we are not particularly interested in how people vote, but in using the campaign to reach people and engage them in politics outside the electoral. Our campaign is a vehicle to big swathes of desperate and disconnected people who think of politics in purely electoral terms - whether that's that we have to vote for the lesser of two evils or that the failure of voting to fix societal issues means there is no path forward.

We know that when we go out and canvass, we're going to interact almost entirely with people who are not ideologically committed leftists. The phase of organizing in the US demands that our work be focused on finding and bringing in people who are not aware of the necessity or existence of a vanguard working class party and convince them that their vote is only an extremely small part of their potential political engagement and the general path to fixing this rotten country.

Therefore, we always have to approach people empathetically, understanding their position so that we can move them towards revolutionary socialist politics. That requires us not to denounce Kamala voters as Hitlerites in training.

[–] YourMom@hexbear.net 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Funny to see this. I kinda wanted to vote but my postman rejected my mail ballot so I'm not voting and this makes me feel better

[–] m532@hexbear.net 6 points 1 month ago

I disagree completely. Liberals are white supremacists and have always been waging war on the whole world. They are weaselly and smug liars. They invented ads. They live off of the stolen work of whole enslaved countries. They are humanity's enemies.

[–] ZWQbpkzl@hexbear.net 6 points 1 month ago

My problem is you really can't effectively campaign for Kamala and acknowledge the genocide. You'll see many liberals try to thread this needle but then their campaign slogan is "vote for the lesser genocide" which really self defeating. Eventually they'll get sucked into genocide apologia or even denialism out of convienice. When that happens, fuck em. For the ones that keep trying to thread the needle, I'll keep asking them why they are so invested in electoralism.

[–] Speaker@hexbear.net 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Lmao, imagine voting ever. I gave Bernie $27 dollars and a temporary stay of execution in 2020, and I'll take both back in this world or in hell.

Vibes do not matter. Actions matter. If your decisions "are not coming from a place of evil" but the result of those decisions is "substantially more evil every single time", then your decisions are not sufficiently repudiating evil. Correct action comes from correct thought. If the action keeps being "kill more kids", then eventually you have to admit the thought "killing kids is okay, actually".

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