this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2023
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Was there an alternative adjective to "clockwise" other than "the rotation you take around left hand"?

Also, how did all watch companies around the world agree on what the direction of "clockwise" is?

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[–] Spuddaccino@reddthat.com 189 points 1 year ago (12 children)

"Sunwise", and for the exact same reason.

Clocks go clockwise because their predecessors did. What were their predecessors?

Sundials.

How does the shadow go around a sundial? Well, sunwise, of course.

Counterclockwise, as said in another comment, was "widdershins", from a Middle Low German phrase meaning "against the way".

[–] NotYourSocialWorker@feddit.nu 32 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I find it interesting that in Swedish the opposite of sunwise is "motsols", i.e. counter sunwise or literally "against the sun". Sunwise is called "medsols", lit. "with the sun".

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Widdershins needs to make a comeback. It's a cool word

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[–] dirkgentle@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I am trying to picture it, but I think the sunwise convention only works in the Northern hemisphere.

[–] Auk@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yep - in the northern hemisphere a sundial shadow will move from west to east in a clockwise fashion; in the southern hemisphere it still goes west to east but does so moving anticlockwise.

[–] XeroxCool@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And if I'm thinking about this correctly, people between ~20N and ~20S latitudes will have it reverse throughout the year and and sometimes be a straight line.

Wait, it's all anglo-centric?

[–] EldVrangr@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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[–] southbayrideshare@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I somehow read this comment in the voice of the cleric performing the "mawwiage" ceremony in Princess Bride.

Cleric: "Sunwise...." long, uncomfortable pause. "And for the exact same weason." Pause. "Clocks go clockwise because their pwedecessors did... and what were their pwedecessors?"

Humperdink: "Look, can we hurry this up?"

Cleric: "Sundials."

Humperdink: "Just skip to the end!"

Cleric: "Countewclockwise... as said in another comment... would be... widdershins."

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[–] Synthead@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes but, how did people know that time went sunwise before the sun?

[–] sawdustprophet@midwest.social 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes but, how did people know that time went sunwise before the sun?

Back before the solar system was fully formed, it was called "gaswise".

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[–] OldManBOMBIN@lemmy.world 95 points 1 year ago (18 children)

A guy I know owns this clock, which basically proves that everything in life is pointless and arbitrary:

[–] kadu@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago

I find this deeply unsettling, please delete

[–] 1luv8008135@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Weird, this feels easier to read. Less grating somehow.

[–] OldManBOMBIN@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (5 children)
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[–] EdanGrey@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have one of these, it was a gag gift from a friend. I've had it up so long now though I have to double check which clock in looking at before I tell the time because I've got so used to it

[–] OldManBOMBIN@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

That's pretty cool. Also, your username contains an anagram of the name of the man who owns the clock from my comment. That's also pretty cool.

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[–] CheezyWeezle@lemm.ee 94 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Well, clocks are just mechanical sundials. Before clockwise, there was sunwise (or deosil), and clocks' movements are based off of the movement of a shadow across a sundial.

[–] Delusional@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Used to be sunwise and counter-sunwise.

[–] Daft_ish@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ok, but how about before the sun?

[–] gnutrino@programming.dev 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Galaxywise and counter-galaxywise

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[–] Thann@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 year ago (6 children)

does that mean that "clockwise" in the southern hemisphere is backwards?

[–] hglman@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago

Yes, when you are in the northern hemisphere, a sundial shadow falls to the north of the gnomon (the thing that makes a shadow). This makes the shadow move from the northwest to north to northeast over a day, which is clockwise. In the southern hemisphere, the shadow from the gnomon falls to the south, so it starts in the southwest and moves to the south and then southeast, which is anticlockwise.

The most obvious way to see this is the photo of the sundial in Perth, where the hours run anticlockwise.

https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1605415745093083137?lang=en https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundial#In_the_Southern_Hemisphere https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundial#/media/File:Sundial_in_Supreme_Court_Gardens,_Perth.jpg

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[–] Disregard3145@lemmy.world 90 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Turnwise and widdershins. I read it in a book once.

[–] red@feddit.de 77 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sunwise, as it was based on the movement of the sun during day (in the Northern hemisphere). As watch faces were modelled after sundials, sunwise and clockwise describe the same direction.

Turnwise is a word invented by Pratchett for a book, but it's clearly based on sunwise. He also used widdershins in his book, which is indeed the unmodified antonym to sunwise.

[–] megasin1@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Not just any book. The discworld series. It's the direction the disc rotates! He has so many easy to miss spots of genius. Amongst many easy to see spots of genius

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[–] butterypowered 19 points 1 year ago

I have found my people.

[–] GreatFord@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago

Deosil (sunwise) was the opposite of widdershins (against the usual). Both had a wide range of uses too, not just directionality.

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[–] DirigibleProtein@aussie.zone 74 points 1 year ago (5 children)
[–] Bo7a@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 year ago

I always heard it as 'deosil and widdershins'

[–] CaptainBlagbird@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As a non-native English reader, I now am not sure if this is a Pratchett reference or if these are actual round world terms...

[–] seitanic@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 1 year ago

Pratchett's just using real-world (albeit archaic) terms: widdershins and deosil.

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[–] fubo@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Imagine you're in the Northern Hemisphere and you face east toward the rising sun. Over the course of the day, the sun will seem to move to the south, and then set in the west. This forms a "sunwise" turn, which is what we now call "clockwise" because we made clocks in imitation of sundials.

[–] loke@fedia.io 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

In Swedish it's called medsols and motsols. The iteral translation is with the sun and against the sun.

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[–] oktux@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Good question!

The real answer seems to be "right" and "left".

Source: https://english.stackexchange.com/a/174112

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[–] Nemo@midwest.social 19 points 1 year ago

Deosil, which is the direction the shadow on a sundual moves (in the Northern Hemisphere).

This turned out to be a surprisingly fascinating question lol.

[–] Omgarm@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Semi related: QI uploaded this bit the other day about an aboriginal tribe that can flawlessly pinpoint north/east/south/west.

https://youtu.be/0aAcYZPpfG0?si=E3xVhFcsCl8gDZpo

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To your second question, the direction of clockwise is mostly influenced by sundials. In the northern hemisphere the shadows move in a clockwise direction, and so the early clocks made in the northern hemisphere mimicked that. In the southern hemisphere it's naturally reversed, but because so much of that hemisphere is either empty ocean or colonized lands, the clocks move in the same direction. Bolivia had a sort of flash in the pan moment in the news about a decade back for reversing their clock direction on a big central clock (think like big ben) as a way of staking their independence from a colonial past.

On the first question, I have no idea. But in Sweden they use terms that translates to "with the sun" and "against the sun" but I don't remember what they are without googling it.

[–] kozel@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

In czech, we have a phrase "jak sa kráje chleba" (same way as a bread is sliced). Problem is, that (at least in my social group) nobody knows, wether it means clockwise or anticlockwise, as everybody slices the bread differently.

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[–] VoilaChihuahua@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

As someone who still confuses these "turn it around that way" - jiggles hand in vague motion- "oops no the other way" usually works just fine.

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