this post was submitted on 21 Jun 2023
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Free and Open Source Software

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I'll start:

  • RSS and blogs, news vs. social media
  • XMPP vs. WhatsApp/FB messenger/Snapchat
  • IRC vs. Matrix, Teams, Discord etc.
  • Forums vs. Social media, Reddit, Lemmy(?)
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[–] Skooshjones@vlemmy.net 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

Honestly, if the FOSS community wants better adoption of these technologies, there needs to be an stronger emphasis on presentation and UI/UX.

The general public isn't interested in using something that looks janky, behaves glitchy, or requires fiddling with settings to get looking nice.

Say what you want about that, I'm not defending it. I think people should care more about content and privacy/freedom vs just shiny things, but that isn't the world we live in right now.

The big tech corpos know this, companies like Apple have become worth trillions by taking existing tech and making it shiny, sexy, and seamless.

Maybe that is just antithetical to FOSS principles. I don't know what is the correct approach. All I know is I've heard so many folks who are curious about trying out FOSS software give it up because they encounter confusing, ugly, buggy user experiences.

Some FOSS products have figured this out, Bitwarden, Proton Mail, and Brave Browser have super polished and clean UX and generally are as or more stable than their closed-source counterparts.

Sad truth. I'm super happy with my FOSS experience overall, but I'm also a techie and very open to tinkering with stuff.

OP, I like several of your examples though. Lots of the old school tech is really solid. Just needs a clean fast front end in many cases.

My choice is Vim and its variants. Add some plugins, it's a really great way to write code. I have no interest in GUI IDEs anymore since getting my NeoVim installation set up and tuned.

[–] weirdwriter@tweesecake.social 16 points 1 year ago (4 children)

@Skooshjones @privsecfoss @foss Also, another reason why big tech catches on, every time, is not so much that the UX is glossy but that Zoom, Apple, etc, all know that #Accessibility is needed to, 1, be dominant. As people look for stuff and tools that are accessible to Disabled users, Apple and Zoom come up a lot because they knew that capturing accessible design was a great way to capture a huge portion of users and otherwise. 2. Accessible design works for everybody. Seriously, having a far cleaner UI is better for everybody, including developers when they need to change code later.

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[–] hunte@beehaw.org 12 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Linux will never be main stream popular unless it becomes pre-loaded on major brand laptops and computers, however good the desktop enviroments and apps are. This is the thing that doesn't get much talk, but however seemless and easy to install most modern Linux distros people just aren't installing their OS' in the first place. Most people either get their OS pre-installed or ask their local Geek Squad to do it for them.

[–] Skooshjones@vlemmy.net 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Valve basically proved this with the Steam Deck. Lots of folks were introduced unknowingly to Linux via that method and realized it's pretty great.

But Valve worked and still work their asses off to get the Steam Deck UI/UX really nice. There were a lot of bumps early on, but things are really good now. Proton works amazingly well, and the look and feel of the Deck is incredible.

I have hope with Framework, System76, and other companies like that which are making computers that work well with, or exclusively are built for Linux. Hopefully they continue to grow the market.

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[–] davehtaylor@beehaw.org 10 points 1 year ago (5 children)

UI/UX has always been a massive problem in F/OSS. The biggest issue is that you need one person, or a team, with a coherent design vision, actual UI/UX understanding, and who will make sure that not every random pull request related to UX is accepted and ensure those contributions align with the design vision.

That rarely happens

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[–] captainsiscold@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago (7 children)

You bring up a good point with utilities like Bitwarden and Proton Mail; things that look nice and have good functionality attract the average user much more easily.

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[–] orcrist@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Isn't that a type error? The examples given were for protocols, but your specific objection was about clients. There are many amazingly smooth clients for the aforementioned protocols. They may not be popular, you might not like them, but they definitely exist.

We should also briefly take note of the disastrous UI that Microsoft Office has.

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[–] Nyoelle@beehaw.org 36 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Sadly, oftentimes, Forums are replaced by discord, despite... how different those are.

And, discord is inferior in so many ways. Not only you can't easily search for the content, you also need an account on centralized proprietary software, that also is quite resource heavy. Not to mention the privacy concerns.

[–] Martineski@lemmy.fmhy.ml 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Discord servers are also closed communities which makes it impossible to search for info through search engine

[–] Nyoelle@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago

Yep. It is a bit funny, and sad to see how we are regressing, despite the technology going forward...

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[–] alongwaysgone@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago

It's also very hard, if not impossible in some cases to find old conversations on discord, vs forums where they're mostly preserved for eternity.

[–] JTR@lemmings.basic-domain.com 7 points 1 year ago

Not to mention how crappy the linux client is for linux users (I use one of those "thirdparty" clients myself, since the linux client is unbearable)

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[–] Black616Angel@feddit.de 33 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Forums and Wikis vs. Discord

Yes I know, they shouldn't serve the same purpose, but oftentimes nowadays ~~people~~ communities use discord when they should use a forum or a wiki.

[–] crius@beehaw.org 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Discord is not even remotely comparable and whoever think that it is (not saying you OP) don't understand the basics on how internet works.

To put it simply:

You can't search the content of a discord server on the publicly available internet. You need to be on discord and for that, the server need to continue to exists. To top it all, things you might search are written all over the place (channels, threads, etc) and the search is clearly the search is a "chat" search, as it should be, thus terrible to actually find what you need.

[–] Black616Angel@feddit.de 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Problem is that mostly those communities develop naturally and then there is a point where people join a discord and search years worth of discussion in multiple channels for some info.
This could of course have been a forum with threads all along but then users would have to create an account for all those niche forums.... I get how this happens, but it still sucks.

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[–] Hexorg@beehaw.org 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I can’t quite find the blog post but I saw someone do a blog post using AWS' map reduce on multiple servers to process a dataset… and then they redid their pipeline using bash, awk, and maybe grep and a single 8-core machine did it 100 times or so faster.

Edit: found it https://adamdrake.com/command-line-tools-can-be-235x-faster-than-your-hadoop-cluster.html

[–] Omega@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think this is more of a problem of knowing when a specific tool should be used. Probably most people familiar with hadoop are aware of all the overhead it creates. At the same time you hit a point in dataset sizes (I guess even more with "real time" data processing) where it's not even feasible with a single machine. (at the same time I'm not too knowledgeable about hadoop and bigdata, so anyone else feel free to chime in)

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[–] furrowsofar@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago

I think you can put this under the Linux command line. I.E. the bash shell and the commonly installed Linux command set. Way powerful for certain things.

[–] orcrist@lemm.ee 27 points 1 year ago (7 children)

You forgot the biggest most originalist one of all. Email.

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[–] xavier666@lemm.ee 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

i3wm

It's now more than a decade old and considered feature-complete 2 years back. But the basic usage is still the same since its initial launch. No matter how many versions of Windows or Gnome or KDE come and go, I use i3 in the same as I did when it launched. I don't need "new" features because the existing features are more than enough.

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[–] king_dead@beehaw.org 20 points 1 year ago (4 children)

RSS was absolutely the shit

[–] cybersandwich@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Part of my rexxit so far has included me dusting off newsreaders and rss feeds again.

Im trying to find a good set up. Newsblur seems to be a front runner. I have nextcloud selfhosted, so I could use that with the $2.99 android app or I could pay for newsblur or feedly a few bucks each month.

Either way, having a self-curated feed of news these last few days has been pretty amazing. There is no algorithm tuned for engagement pumping news in my face. It's just stories, articles, YouTube videos, and podcasts that I want to see (on my terms).

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[–] Sordid@beehaw.org 9 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Do people not use it anymore? I still do. I follow a boatload of different youtube channels, webcomics, blogs, etc. If there's some other way besides RSS to have all of those updates show up on a single page, I don't know it.

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[–] BrikoX@vlemmy.net 8 points 1 year ago
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[–] Pilirin@kbin.social 16 points 1 year ago (4 children)

audacity. that shit was mature in the 1990s.

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[–] mim@lemmy.sdf.org 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Agree on RSS.

Don't have enough experience with XMPP.

IRC is not a secure protocol, I think matrix takes the cake there. (although I really miss IRC)

Lemmy and Reddit do have an upvote feature and aggregation across different topics / communites, which I think it's what old school forums lacked.

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[–] totallynotsocsa@beehaw.org 15 points 1 year ago (8 children)

XMPP is very underappreciated.

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[–] patchymoose@rammy.site 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)
[–] Lost_Wanderer@beehaw.org 30 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Hard to do anything with GIMP.

Jk

Kinda.

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[–] furrowsofar@beehaw.org 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Usenet use to be great. Predated forums and Reddit. Frankly the threadiverse is just now going a bit back to that concept.

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[–] ScrumblesPAbernathy@readit.buzz 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

IRC is so rad. I learned to touch type by hanging out in IRC channels in the dark on a stolen shell account in 93. I felt like a hacker, really I was a goofball talking about rollerblading on a shell account that no one cared about because they got it for free with their SLIP account.

[–] gabereal451@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

If I learned nothing from the movie 'Hackers', it's that all hackers need to know how to rollerblade. It's like, if you don't know how to rollerblade, are you really a hacker?

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[–] l3mming@lemmy.fmhy.ml 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Vim. Hands down the best text editor / ide ever created. Come at me, Emacs.

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[–] Kodachrome@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago (5 children)

The Thunderbird desktop mail client is far better (feature-rich, stable, interoperable) than any webmail or phone app mail client I've ever seen.

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[–] nyan@lemmy.cafe 12 points 1 year ago (5 children)

USENET. Replacements aren't distributed, or make discussion group discovery difficult, or don't have decent native desktop clients, or some combination of those.

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[–] tvblb@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Apache. I get why nginx is the new hotness, but apache/mod_event still slaps.

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[–] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 9 points 1 year ago

Not much. That's the thing about FOSS—it keeps getting better. It is not subject to enshittification like e.g. Windows is.

[–] heartlessevil@lemmy.one 8 points 1 year ago (6 children)
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[–] cyd@vlemmy.net 8 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Emacs. Still the best way to edit any kind of text in any context.

[–] freeman@lemmy.pub 14 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I came to say vim...Is the debate still a thing?

[–] laird_dave@feddit.de 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No.

There is no debate because vim is the superior editor, period.

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[–] navDend0@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago (8 children)

vi, lynx, mutt, and of course X11 > wayland

though also controversially, I'll take systemD over sysVinit

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[–] Kichae@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I'll second IRC. I don't need my chat to be e2ee, and encryption has made Matrix a much bigger pain in the ass than it's worth to me.

Forums, too, though I'm a big fan of the distributed social media space. Lemmy has an experimental front-end based on phpBB, and I would love to see someone take that idea and go whole hog on it to create proper federated forums.

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