Can someone "both sides" this issue for me, I keep seeing all this shit saying it's obvious China is committing genocide and another pile of shit saying the opposite. I feel like 90% of my understanding of the issue is based on propaganda from one side or another.

[–] Joncash2@lemmy.ml 14 points 7 months ago (16 children)

The truth is it's all propaganda from both sides and no one actually knows what's going on. And because I'm saying this anywhere I'm probably going to be downvoted to oblivion as either side will downvote me. However, what we do know is:

China has admitted there are training camps in the Xinjiang Area.
The training camps are mandatory and people have been forced to go there.
The graduates have been spread all over China gaining employment in pretty much every factory in China (This imho is because it makes things impossible to sanction)
The people are compensated for their time in the training camps (This is what makes them forced labor camps in theory)
It is a cultural thing where guests in Xinjiang are invited to sleep in the same bed. This has lead to many stories of Chinese people forcing themselves into the bedrooms of Xinjiang people.

What we are sure isn't quite right:

They are not genociding the people in the camps. This is why the conversation has turned to "cultural genocide" whatever that means. I believe this is propaganda to reinforce that they could be genocide when there is no evidence.
There is a lot of fake evidence for the genocide. For example the prison camp image or the truck that is censored but has red liquid leaking out of it were all doctored. Just this alone has to make you question the truth of those claiming genocide.
The "leaked list" of prisoners is fake. It contains HK movie stars and actors.

What we could probably conclude:

I'd argue that there is forced labor occurring as they are literally being forced into training camps and getting paid for it.
There is no forced labor in the factories USA is claiming there is. After graduating, the students are welcome to move and work where they want, so this can't be forced labor.

Final questions:

What happens to those who won't participate in the forced training camps? We don't know, and that's ultimately where the disconnect and miscommunication is coming from. The west is claiming they're being killed. China isn't saying anything but then are at a minimum keeping them locked up indefinitely. So, in the end, it's a bad situation for sure but it's likely not as bad as the western propaganda makes it look.

[+] Ibaudia@lemmy.world -14 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (9 children)

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[–] Alsephina@lemmy.ml 21 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Pretty normal (and necessary) to have a national language lol. 96% of Tibetans can speak their local language since it's part of the curriculum, and Tibetan, Uyghur and other local cultures are highly promoted in Chinese media as mandated by the CPC.

promote social harmony

True and good.

cultural erasure [...] homogeneity

Do you watch Chunwan? It's the most watched media in China and its national television, where every year there are displays of traditional Uyghur culture in Xinjiang — dresses, dances, music, etc. Dilraba Dilmurat, the most popular celebrity in China, is of Uyghur descent and performs in those traditional garbs.

Here's one of her performances

Claiming China is "suppressing Uyghur/Tibet culture" or other bs like that is hilarious nonsense to anyone who knows even a little about the country lmfao. If you don't know about the country you're speaking about, you should ask questions and look into it instead of parroting imperial core narratives.

Didn’t think this would be a hot take

You're not on Reddit full of western liberals. Lemmy is a bit more lefty in comparison.

[–] Sagittarii@lemm.ee 10 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

TIL China's Chunwan/Gala is the most watched television program in the world. Damn.

[+] Ibaudia@lemmy.world -8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

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[–] Alsephina@lemmy.ml 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

It's literally the most watched television program on the planet lmao.

What about the limits on children under 18 from participating in religious activities?

Preventing child abuse and indoctrination is very cool and good actually. Wish I wasn't exposed to it as a kid.

The demolition of religious sites?

What? Xinjiang has some of the largest mosques in the world lol. And a pretty high ratio of mosques to Muslims (about as high as my own Muslim country's actually).

The requirement for religious leaders to register with the state?

Good. If the capitalist Russian Federation also continued to suppress the church and its leaders like the USSR did and China does, so much of the population would not have become so religious and reactionary.

What's with this obsession with relating Uyghur culture to religion? Sure, so long as it's only adults exposed to religions and it's consensual, fine, but Xinjiang's culture is much more than that, as are those of any region where religions are unfortunately still prevalent.

Religions are generally in decline in every place that's progressing economically, and Xinjiang is no exception. That's a good thing.

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