this post was submitted on 17 Apr 2024
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Lol wtf are you on about. It's realistic to you that people can have PTSD, hyperphantasia, photographic memory, schizophrenia, bipolar, blindness/deafness, multiple sclerosis, and all these other otherworldy experiences which most people wouldn't believe without being educated on it, but not realistic that a portion of people have deficient or non-existent mental imagery? Or even that a portion of people have ADHD?
I seriously doubt that you know better than neuroscience&psychology researchers and people who have the disorder but alright.
Also aphantasia isn't "no remember thingies". Memory is complex and it isn't reliant on your ability to project images into your vision.
I have never been able to actually mentally visualize something, I always thought "imagine being in your happy place" was a metaphor and not that you're actually supposed to visualize a place. I have always took "visualize" to mean not literally putting it in your vision, but just thinking about the fact of a situation. The closest I have to actually being able to picture an image/object is dreams and sleep paralysis hallucinations lol. No amount of caffeine or concerta could possibly change that. You're crazy if you think because you can't imagine it that there's a conspiracy of "so-called aphantasiacs and medical researchers" who are lying about the existence of lacking mental imagery.
I'm curious as to where you allegedly saw aphantasia being "debunked" because all there seems to be is crazies on internet forums (specifically, Reddit and ycombinator) who notably aren't psychology researchers, have no qualifications regarding the matter, and are just random people who want to feel like they cracked the code. Often times it's people who have never been able to visualize who think their deficiency of mental imagery is the norm and that most other people have never been able to visualize either.
I'm also curious as to whether you think developmental/congenital prosopagnosia is fake or if it's just a phase like you think aphantasia is.
"Neuroscience researchers" but you don't post a source, just an essay on how invested you are in this being real. Keep huffing that Quanta magazine, buddy. MBTI testing is also horseshit. I didn't see it "debunked" on Hacker News and Reddit, those are the #1 aphantasia and ADHD havers in the entire world. It's hilarious you think something less rigorous than IQ testing is on the same level as PTSD
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These are by Rebecca Keogh (and others), an actual cognitive neuroscience specialist/psychology researcher who has a PhD from one of the most well-regarded universities in Australia. Here they establish that there is real evidence that aphantasiacs lack mental imagery, and finds that there is no evidence backing the claim that "aphantasiacs have mental imagery". Keogh also has some works that delve deeper into mental imagery and how it's a spectrum, including aphantasiacs and hyperphantasiacs.
Paper by Liana Palermo, PhD in cognitive neuroscience and specialist in mental imagery research, who very bluntly accepts the existence of multiple types of aphantasia & hyperphantasia
This paper by CJ Dance addresses the prevalence of aphantasia and how it is, again, a spectrum, and discredits the idea that it isn't simply an impairment in metacognition, rather it is an isolated deficit in visual imagery.
Here's a paper involving MANY medical, psychology, and neuroscience researchers which goes over aphantasia and hyperphantasia research, and has many citations to papers that affirm the existence of aphantasia.
A paper by a STEM/IM researcher finding evidence for deficits in mathematic visualization in aphantasiacs.
Paolo Bartolomeo is a highly accreddited neurologist & researcher, and Jianghao Liu is a cognitive neuroscience researcher (PhD) with specialization in visual mental imagery and consciousness. The paper clearly states the existence of a disorder causing absent or nearly absent visual imagery called aphantasia.
Here's Cleveland Clinic casually affirming its existence too.
I shouldn't even have to give sources because I'm not the one claiming an abnormality in visual imagery is fake but here you go anyways.
It literally comes up immediately when you search for aphantasia research. You clearly have not even tried to find research on aphantasia. Now where are your sources? I notice you didn't link any, at all.
??? Where in the god damn fuck did I mention MBTI or personality tests in general in my original comment?
And yet you don't mention where you "saw it debunked", just stating that you totally did bro.
Again, you are being crazy, you are quite literally making up arguments to attack out of your ass.
I don't know why you decided this is the hill for you to die on despite you clearly having no idea of what you're talking about and most respected psychology & neuroscience/cognition researchers who have tackled the subject clearly not being aligned with your views on the matter at all, and what makes you think you have any authority to just call a scientifically measured and agreed-to -exist phenomenon fake, but go ahead and have a tantrum and pretend you know anything about the subject I guess.
If you respond with internet magazines or a shitty YouTube video essay as your source I'm gonna laugh myself to asphyxiation
This is the problem with the I Fucking Love Science crowd, your fun facts quickly turn into barrages of narcissistic gibberish whenever someone doesn't give you validation. There's no rigor, there's no questioning, there's no meta-analysis.
Just TRUST THE SCIENTISTS, LOOK AT THE STUDIESESS nevermind whether they're any good. Go post about the Stanford Prison Experiment or something you irritating pseud.
Oh so your actual stance is "science isn't real". LMAO. You're so pathetic, you actually think there's a conspiracy by dozens of some very well-known and trusted neuroscience/psychology researchers on the subject, even specialists in the field (some of which have aphantasia themselves) to make up aphantasia?
"If I don't like the ocean of sources and independent research, I'll just disregard it, even if I have no evidence myself for my claim."
You're a fucking moron, you know what you just did, you went and googled "aphantasia" and posted everything that came up because I made you mad by telling you to live more healthily and look at plants and sleep better and see if you magically get the ability to imagine an apple back.
Studies get meta-analysis on them all the time and get questioned en masse, that's how science works. Is every scientist who does meta analysis on studies now a conspiracy theorist? ๐คฃ๐
You are a dumbass, multiple of the studies are meta-analyses and many very clearly state that the group studied are otherwise healthy individuals.
You have no evidence for your BS claims and that makes you mad.
Lol you clearly don't understand what I'm saying. Yes, and there are other meta-analyses of aphantasia studies which explore how bad the data is. You can also have a meta-analysis that says "wow, look at all of this data, isn't it amazing?" you only want to do B. Our whole definition of a healthy individual is flawed. When testosterone levels drop nationwide, that becomes the new normal threshold for people administering testosterone therapy, for instance. Everyone has sleep problems from a sedentary lifestyle nowadays, starting in school, and that's when they get diagnosed with ADHD.
Multiple of the studies (including ones I linked) suggest that there isn't as much data on the subject as there is on other disorders since mental imagery has only recently started being explored in-depth, but where exactly do you see any that suggest that aphantasia isn't real or that the lack of data establishes no consensus on the existence of aphantasia? Because a "debunking" would do that, but all of the meta-analyses I've come across still accept the existence of aphantasia as a chronic disorder.
Pretty funny how you make these grandiose claims but never have a source. Your only source is Reddit threads on people saying it's not real lol.
Prove god doesn't exist you little weasel
I don't need to prove that "God doesn't exist" if there's no scientific proof that God exists. But there is much scientific proof which draws the conclusion of aphantasia existing.
wow just like string theory. the enshittification of science has been going on since the 90s man
Much of the data is good. It's good data with good methodology that is very clearly explained. It is literally just not as high in volume as most other disorders.
It's about as interesting as studies on what people's favorite color is. I find the whole shebang embarrassing, glad everyone justified their paycheck, sincerely, people shouldn't have to do that and should be free to research cool shit
Well what you think about things isn't important because you have no say in the matter and can't find a source that agrees with anything you say.
You made a claim that "ADHD and aphantasia are caused by living an unhealthy lifestyle". You've been pretty loud about how you want better evidence, so where's your evidence for your claim? This is clearly something that would need real evidence on for you to state it as a fact. Where is it? Why do you think you're exempt from having "good research" proving that X claim is true? You keep talking about this "debunking" but you have not even a singular source that affirms anything you've said here.
If you're seriously asking me whether healthy eating and sleeping are on the front lines of treatment against ADHD then I think that's itself an admission you have zero familiarity with these things save for your wikipedia reply guy binges.
The fact that treatment is coming around more to working on environmental and behavioral factors (rather than throwing random stimulants at kids to see what happens and how much money we can make pharma monopolies) is proof that it's just a product of unnatural pressures being placed on kids. We just need more education funding instead of tax cuts for pharma executives. Kids need better lesson plans, more engaging education, a structured environment, there are a lot of positive examples we can look to for treatment of these issues rather than pretending diet, exercise, sleep and boredom don't exist.
LMAO caught in your lie you dumbass. First you said that ADHD is caused by poor eating habits and lack of exercise, and now that you get confronted on that you shift your tone of voice and argument to "improving your lifestyle habits is used to treat ADHD". No shit sherlock, I've said that in this thread.
You can have both, having both is actually extremely effective at treating ADHD compared to just one, psychiatry researchers know that medicine isn't a cure.
Yeah no you're bullshitting so hard right now. You keep nagging me for different evidence, hoping I don't provide it, yet when you make outrageous assertions like this you don't actually have a source backing you.
Plenty of people with ADHD are extremely well-educated, do you think people with ADHD just can't be healthy or educated? Some of the most successful people on the planet have ADHD, Bill Gates included.
This is just something that's generally true, not specific to ADHD.
Plenty of people with ADHD have this. They still have ADHD. This is literally part of how ADHD may be treated in many cases my guy, you'rr acting like ADHD treatment doesn't exist or that people who undergo it stop having ADHD.
Except ADHD isn't caused by a lack of a good diet, excercise, sleep, or boredom, it is well established in psychiatry literature that these can present as symptoms, and that laziness doesn't "cause" ADHD; and you clearly know your claims are bullshit too since you have no source.