this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2023
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GenZedong
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This is a bad thing
although the media attention and scope is quite skewed, and this is doubtless going to be used as propaganda for ukraine to kill russian civs.
But this is an attack that has killed citizens, further burning a land once united and deepening the divide between them. This war is both the final revenge of the Soviet Union, and the final nail of its coffin.
Neither side intentionally targets civilians.
War is hell. But Russia, as the aggressor in this war, is the one in the wrong here.
Nah Ukraine started it back in 2014 with the coup and the subsequent oppression of Russian speaking population of the Donbass
This didn't start in 2022
Don't forget the blatent violation of both minsk accords and their statement the negotiations where in bad faith
Oppressed how?
Across all sides (Civilian, Military, Ukranian and Russian), an estimated 150-200K people have died and half a million wounded since the start of the invasion in 2022.
What kind of oppression could possibly been having taken place that necessitates such an escalation?
They where none stop shelling donbass, and took away the rights of the Russian speaking population many times, they also flagrantly violated both minsk accords.
Also you are convenently forgetting that Russia has REPEATEDLY offered peace treaties, negotiations for peace treaties and cease fires so they can negotiate a peace treaty starting from week 1, that Ukraine (Became the US told them to) Refuses every time.
Yes, it so happens a civil war was being fought there.
But the majority of the fighting ended with the second Minsk accords. After 2017 on average only about a dozen people died a year from combat actions. So there couldn't have been much shelling going on in 2022.
How does a dozen or two deaths a year warrant an escalation to a hundred thousand deaths a year?
Which rights, when did this happen? I'm honestly curious abuot this.
Both sides did that. A lot.
But what does that have to do with Russia's 2022 invasion? Putin himself said that Russia would not get involved in the enforcement of the Minsk accords because it was an internal Ukrainian matter.
Because Russia wants to not only keep the land they've invaded but also dictate the way Ukraine conducts it's diplomatic relations with other nations. Ukraine is fighting for it's sovereignty here. Russia is trying to take that away.
no I am talking about the shellings POST accord 1 and then agian POST accord 2.
I have not seen where Putin said he would not enforce it, however 1) Russia is a signitary so they have some enforcement ability, and second the Russian Speaking Minority did request aid
the first one I can think of, and this is not all of it, but Ukraine banned the use of Russian in all of Ukrane, (I mean if shelling homes after 2 peace treaties was not enough)
And at the start they where not wanting to keep the DPR and LPR, but instead get them recognized as independent nations, it was not untill after the votes of the DPR and LPR that they where planning on keeping them, also the USA and the EU are already controling and dictating Ukraines forign policy, so by that metric they are not sovern any way.
4 if you are refering to the not joining NATO both NATO and Ukraine had agreed that that wold never be an option, after the fall of the berlin wall, NATO garenteed Gorbie, that they would not expand past their current boarders, Russia is fighting an exsistintal threat, the aliance's express purpous is anti-russia pro USA, and there is farther proof, by every time that Russia (or the USSR) has asked to join they have been rejected out of hand. Russia is not trying to take away any sovernty