“People think, increasingly it appears, that we shouldn’t be doing this. Well, let me start by saying we haven’t lost a single American in this war,” McConnell said. “Most of the money that we spend related to Ukraine is actually spent in the US, replenishing weapons, more modern weapons. So it’s actually employing people here and improving our own military for what may lie ahead.”

cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/4085063

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[–] Bnova@hexbear.net 27 points 1 year ago (14 children)

If NATO, as we both agree, is an aggressive group of countries that has a contemporary history of attacking countries that are not aligned with the West, despite many of these countries trying to align themselves with the West in good faith (Libya, Russia, and Iran all helped the West in the war on terror), then what is the appropriate way for Russia to react to the expansion of NATO to their doorstep? And I'm asking this as a genuine question, you're Russia how are you reacting to the West surrounding you despite assisting them, when do you stop tolerating increased military encroachment?

I don't think that Russia invaded Ukraine because of only NATO expansion, but it obviously played a role given that the peace agreement that was nearly agreed upon April 2022 had Ukraine agree to neutrality. I think a lot of it came down to the genocide of ethnically Russian Ukrainians in the East and Ukraine's increased shelling of the region in February 2022 is probably what escalated the war into what we see today.

[–] navorth@lemm.ee -1 points 1 year ago (13 children)

That's a good question. Let me tackle it from a different angle though - why do ex USSR/Warsaw Pact countries actively want to join NATO?

As a resident of one, I think it's because they feel that Russia after Yeltsin has the exact same imperialistic principles USSR did. And it doesn't matter to them that Russia did cooperate with the West, because they see those principles as enough threat. Thus, they have the same reason to fear Russia as Russia has to fear NATO.

Perhaps if NATO disbanded before 1999 we wouldn't have current Russia, but that's alt history.

[–] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 24 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Russia after Yeltsin

Russia during Yeltsin rolled in the tanks on its own parliament. The absence of foreign invasions was not for lack of malice, but for lack of capability.

The reason why ex-Warsaw Pact countries are flocking to NATO is because when the communists left power, the reactionaries resurged. And naturally the reactionaries in power wanted to be part of a right-wing alliance. But no matter what revanchists might tell you, living standards across Eastern Europe were better in the 1980s than they were in the 2000s.

[–] navorth@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I live in eastern Europe, and I agree that the 90s and early 2000 sucked for us. Big time. My country government absolutely botched the transition to free market economy.

Still, I feel we traded stable but shit for volatile yet hopeful.

[–] silent_water@hexbear.net 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

there's no way to sell public infrastructure to the highest bidder that won't result in a massive drop in quality of life. it's got very little to do with your government and entirely to do with the introduction of bourgeois rule.

[–] navorth@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

I'd agree in a vacuum. Even though I'd prefer state owned stuff, quality of life does not depend solely on who owns the infrastructure.

Stuff we take for granted like buying food product at the deli (meat, cheese) required either being lucky, knowing the right people or having US dollars in your pocket.

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 21 points 1 year ago

The only way the transition was "botched" was that the west wasn't able to loot as much as they wanted.

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