Is there hope?
this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2024
134 points (98.6% liked)
chapotraphouse
13535 readers
958 users here now
Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Gossip posts go in c/gossip. Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from c/gossip
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I don't think this is so true. If the billionaire and high-multimillionaire class is liquidated, that's a lot of resources and more importantly political power that is back in the hands of the proletariat. The ability to (on average) live in a society that actually has policies like what you want instead of trudging on with a "this is what reality is" resignated sigh is valuable (especially since most people are minoritized in some way besides being proles). Resources being spent towards pro-social ends instead of on corruption and the vanity of billionaires is also a gain that's hard to fathom. Yeah, there will be petite-bourg fuckers who want to continue with their fiefdoms unchallenged by nasty things like labor rights, but that's always the case to some extent. There will be a fascist movement from them that needs to be crushed, but that doesn't override the huge amount that people have to gain from revolution.
Over half the nation who voted chose for Trump and the other half chose Harris - these people need imperialism and will not give it up until the conditions get so bad due to economic collapse that they aren't getting the benefits of imperialism anymore
As anon says, about half didn't vote. Furthermore, a huge amount of the remaining people are ideologically incoherent, at least as far as politics are concerned because political agency is so removed from their lives that there's not much obvious reason to develop serious investment in it -- even more so for people who mainly care about issues that neither red nor blue cares about. Oh, and there are still minorities (each cycle less) who were scared into voting for Kamala for false promises of self-preservation. You're looking at a bunch of people who blatantly have various kinds of false consciousness and declaring that their informed class consciousness is as imperial lackeys based on their current actions. It makes no sense and opposes the current evidence, it's just revolutionary pessimism because "they're settlers, QED."
Half the people not voting has nothing to do with the material reality that those same people benefit from imperialism and an economic incentive to keep it going. It is a false assumption to say that because they didn't vote, they must have some revolutionary potential just waiting to be activated. They are part of a global labor aristocracy and will not do anything more than fight for the gains that improve their own lives, which come directly from exploiting other people. Until those benefits are removed through economic collapse and are no longer affordable for the ruling class, the labor aristocracy will continue and they will not go out of their way to end that privilege
https://hexbear.net/comment/5631230
Your idea that fighting for personal material gains is at odds with fighting against empire was already refuted. There are also other things, like "labor rights", "tenant rights", etc. that aren't part of the metric that a whole lot of people would like if given the opportunity and socialists have the chance to offer those where the other two parties don't even gesture at it.
No it wasn't, it was suggested with no evidence or grounding in reality, things required of a refutation to refute anything. You have a metaphysical idea that because people in the imperial core are workers somehow they will fight against the system they benefit from because on the other side of that fight the wealth distribution would benefit them more. This rejects a century of communist theory. You have taken out all context and material analysis of the condition of those workers and done class reductionism. People like myself who have actually been doing labor and tenant organizing in the US for years know this from experience. People have had the opportunity to organize the whole time, we have had labor and tenant unions for a long time. People join them to get more for themselves and when they do they move on. These are essentially charities and non profits in the modern context, not tools of political power. workers in the US won't be organizing shit until the empire collapses, largely due to it's own weight and not because of any organizing being done. Communists need to be organizing now in preparation for that collapse, but it won't be until things are incredibly dire that the average imperial core resident are counted among us. Until then it's going to be a very small amount of people who actually understand what it means to be a communist and will subscribe to that notion, and even many of those will still be plagued with metaphysical thinking and liberal brain rot