this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2023
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Baldur's Gate 3
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Baldur’s Gate 3 is a story-rich, party-based RPG set in the universe of Dungeons & Dragons, where your choices shape a tale of fellowship and betrayal, survival and sacrifice, and the lure of absolute power. (Website)
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And the stagnation it caused in the genre is evident, no?
No. Dragon Age: Inquisition, The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, and Baldur's Gate 3 all draw influence from Skyrim. I think open world games are better because of Skyrim.
Dragon Age: Inquisition and Witcher 3 both began development in the same year Skyrim released. I don't know if I can really say they were influenced by Skyrim because of the timing, but I haven't played either.
Baldur's Gate 3 drawing influence from Skyrim I will have to vehemently disagree with. That assertion just makes no sense at all.
Dungeons and Dragons is literally just a Skyrim knockoff that uses dice.
That one was tough without /s, but ha ha. :)
FWIW, one of the lead developers of Dragon Age Inquisition confirmed that a lot of decisions around that game were EA wanting them to make Skyrim (for instance, the addition of mounts) Source: https://youtu.be/4Q5_RsII_Ho?si=a9CTmyHpEpgfuPTe
Are you saying none of the developers played Skyrim? Even if you're designing to not be Skyrim, you're still influenced by it.
Are you saying none of the Skyrim’s developers played Baldur’s Gate 1 and 2? Did you?
Did RPG game developers play an RPG before developing an RPG? Yes. That's how influences work. I didn't play BG1 or BG2 because I was a child.
So, what the point of your comment about Skyrim then ?
Maybe you should begin with that before saying Skyrim had any influence on BG3, don't you think?
My point was that Skyrim didn't ruin RPGs because there still exists demand for RPGs and quality content. Without seminal games like Skyrim, you don't get proper investment in games like BG3.
What are you even trying to say? BG3 wouldn't exist without Skyrim? did you ever play Diablo 1 or 2? World Of Warcraft during Burning Crusade or Wrath Of The Lich King?
Skyrim didn't bring anything new. Skyrim is just a drop in the ocean, with no impact on Baldur's Gate 3, as there were tons of greater and more impactful games before that.
In the form it is today? No. You don't get $100M to develop the game if you don't have previous titles selling 60M copies.
Now we're talking about money? Do you have the slightest idea of how much of a cash cow WoW have been for Blizzard since 2004? In 2010 WoW had more than 10 millions subscribers. $100m a month, not counting the price of the expansion packs.
What about GTA? 400 millions copies sold.
Skyrim could have failed miserably, you'd still be able to play BG3 in is exact same form as today. Skyrim is no exception. As a matter of fact, Skyrim wouldn't exist if it was not for previous successful games.
You are overly and pointlessly focused on Skyrim.
You named two games that are entirely different. Those two made their money on multiplayer. Skyrim is a single player RPG experience that encourages mods. Skyrim's success as a single player experience enabled games like Dragon Age Inquisition and Witcher 3 and Divinity OS2 to get the funding they needed to become fully realized.
lol
What does Skyrim, a first person realtime 3D game has to do with Baldur’s Gate games? Absolutely nothing.
So what’s the point of even bringing it in the conversation, if by your own words I am not allowed to bring different type of games?
Stop making U-turns every time I tell you things you don’t want to hear.
Skyrim is a triple A RPG. I haven't made one change to my argument. My argument is not even my argument. It's the "Standing on the shoulders of giants" metaphor. If you like what you see today, then you have to give credit to the works that impacted the current environment.
I won’t because it’s BS
BG3 has nothing to do with Skyrim. The gameplay has nothing to do with it. The story has nothing to do with it either. BG3 exists because of BG1 and BG2. You would know that if you’ve ever played one of those game. But you didn’t because you are to young to know shit. As a matter of fact, every Larian’s game exists because of Baldur’s gate. The world didn’t begin the day you grab your first controller you know?
Now, if we stop talking about gameplay and talk about money like you did, BG3 never had to wait for Skyrim to be a success, as there were tremendously successful games before Skyrim already.
Keep repeating yourself if you like, it won’t change how wrong you are.
Why is BG3 not BioWare if it evolved on its own merits? You don't even have a point you're trying to make. You just want to tell me that I'm wrong. In order for me to be wrong, one of the most influential games ever would have to have zero influence on the development, funding, or reception of Baldur's Gate 3. You don't have any argument because I literally can't be wrong about it.
If you think that no one in the 6 years of development compared the game to Skyrim in any way whatsoever or any game inspired by Skyrim, then you have an opinion so dumb that it's not worth talking to you.
Skyrim is not the most influential game ever… you’re timeline is broken by your own ignorance.
I don’t have « a point to make » for someone who’s just spitting nonsense.
You keep repeating the same BS.
I gave you facts you keep ignoring.
I gave you historical references that you keep ignoring too.
Not arguments. Facts.
Now live in a fantasy if you want. Why should I care?
You admitted that you don't have a point. Lol. I'm going to go play a rogue/fighter/wizard and fight dragons and have my choices impact the outcome and be a dragonborn and have mods.
What the fuck are you talking about?
Those are things in both games, numb nuts.
Or what about the mother figure in the dark cult of assassins?
Do you really think Skyrim invented the trope of the Mother figure?
Are you that much illiterate?
For fuck sake, open a damn book.
I thought you said the only thing that influenced BG3 was BG1 and BG2. Now I have to read books?
Play BG1 and BG2 if you can't read...
At this point I'm expecting you to tell me that BG3 copied Skyrim because there are Elves and Dwarfs and Dragons in both of them...
You do realize that the Mother figure in both Skyrim and Baldur's Gate is a representation of Lilith, first wife of Adam and mother of all demons right? Which is a figure at least as old as the fucking Old Testament? Right? Have you ever heard about Dante's Hell?
Now, do you realize how ignorant you look like right now?
I'll bite. Show me the Old Testament RPG where a dead mother figure is standing in a coffin in an assassin cult, and I'll concede. Here's your chance.
I just can’t count how many movies since the very fucking 1900´s got that very fucking scene.
How creative it would be if someone put that scene in an RPG, wouldn’t it? Like « Radio on the Internet » if you can get that joke.
Well, maybe you should start with fucking Diablo 1 then.
Don’t forget to wash your teeth before going to sleep kiddo.
So you can't name one. Got it. Lol
Look, kiddo, let me pontificate for a minute.
You seem like a decent person. A lefty who loves cats? Definitely my jam. But man, you’re just terrible at arguments.
You can’t just spit opinions and expect people with actual knowledge to agree with you.
I get it, you love Skyrim and you want to think it’s a genius piece of art which invented everything. But it’s simply not true. It’s a just a rewriting of very old stories. Like almost every RPGs to be honest - and the books LOTR, and the books GOT, and everything Fantasy really - but that’s not the point.
I simply hope you don’t make political arguments the way you led that conversation, because damn that was bad.
I didn't even play Skyrim until 2020. I think it's like a B-. You have no idea where I'm coming from opinion wise. I didn't say an opinion. I'm saying that BG3 was influenced by Skyrim. That's all I've tried to say this whole time.
This is legitimately not an opinion that I've tried to convey. It's insane to me that you think the impact is 0.00000%. It's not a coherent thought. It's like saying my uncle didn't have any impact on me because my dad is older than he is.
I'm not arguing an opinion. I am not mad at this or debating a position. I'm stating a fact and am being told it's not a fact. I'm shocked that you don't understand what I'm trying to say. If you think I'm arguing, then you must not understand what I'm trying to say.
If you are upset by what I'm saying, then I am genuinely concerned. I don't know what part of what I'm saying can be so wrong that you feel the best to argue. This is surreal to me. Can you acknowledge what I'm trying to say?
My entire statement is "Skyrim had a non-zero impact on Baldur's Gate 3". Do you understand that is what I'm saying?
Not one instance then? Huh. I guess you aren't right.
LMAO
Try opening your eyes wider for a sec?
Or maybe you’re just so unbelievably stupid you don’t even know what the Old Testament is ? Gotta admit « Old Testament RPG » is a fun way to talk about the Bible.
Lol don't talk out your ass just cuz your point is running out of steam. I don't wholly disagree that Skyrim wasn't a massive impact in gaming, but it wasn't this massive turning point for RPGs to suddenly become popular.
Skyrim was an ambitious project that somehow didn't bite Bethesda in the ass. It taught tons of valuable lessons including laying the grounds for the great open worlds we have now. Nobody in 2011 was imagining games having the scale of open world we see in shit like Elden Ring, but Skyrim showed a glimpse to the future.
The flip of that being that Skyrim didn't save RPGs from disappearing and they were already a massively popular genre and to say that future RPGs relied on its success, especially 12 years down the road, is a huge overstatement that reeks of fanboyism.
I think we made some progress in my point, so I just want to try to drive it home. The original argument was "Skyrim was a blight on the games industry."
The reason I am trying to say that "Skyrim is influential on modern RPGs" is to disagree with the blight comment. I believe there are many ways that modern RPGs benefit from Skyrim's contribution to the genre.
If Skyrim were truly a blight, we'd have more like the new Assassins Creed where it's a massive world with little content to discover. To me, the problem with that argument though is that Skyrim and Assassin's Creed are still pretty fun without the narrative content.