WilloftheWest

You know you’re never going to get any hard evidence other than surface-level stuff that they can get from their bigot blogs, because bigots hate actually engaging with media.

This is a great observation. I just generally think a world that poses questions such as “why haven’t wizards fixed this” is more interesting than a world with arbitrary precision measurements and walk-in cancer curing services in every hamlet.

Some good points. I'm just going to continue this discussion because it's interesting and it helps me prepare my games to consider these things.

1: Universal answers don't necessitate universal acceptance, and it can make for more interesting lore when that's the case. As an example: in the lore of Legend of the Five Rings, it's common knowledge in the Empire that the official map of the Empire has a massively inconsistent scale, with journeys of similar charted length having up to a threefold difference in travel time. Savvy travellers know to plan accordingly, but no one would ever question Imperial doctrine, as the charting of the Empire was an act of a very real and tangible living god. This is where I got my praying at every temple comment; it's common for people to avoid accidentally badmouthing the Empire by saying "I took longer than expected as I took every opportunity to honour my ancestors at every shrine on the road."

1b: The pantheon of the Forgotten Realms is ever expanding and there are gods in that pantheon that are opposed to Mystra, as well as luddite gods who are oppose the gods of innovation such as Gond. Gondians certainly promote the advancement of science, and Mystrans and Oghmans promote the advancement of magic to a very certain extent, but there are gods in the pantheon who would task its worshippers with direct opposition of these missions, if for nothing else than to piss off their rival god.

2: This comes back to point 1. Different states will have their own standards of measurement, often using the same name, and the usage of these standards are very often more political than logical. A famous example from history is Napoleon's height. Napoleon was "5 foot 2 by the French measurement and 5 foot 6 by the English measurement," which made him a French adult man of average height. It was a common political tool to report him in the British Press as 5 foot 2, thus implying that he was short of stature.

Imagine the compounding issue of different species interacting in the Sword Coast. A human-majority patriarchal city state may define an inch as the average length of the the second knuckle of an adult human male's middle finger, while an elvish-majority patriarchal enclave may define it exactly the same but for an elf's finger. These slight discrepancies aren't an issue until they can be exploited for political gain; an elvish embassy may be established at a distance no closer than a mile to the Palace of the Magistrates, but there's roughly a 10 human-yard difference between an elvish mile and a human mile.

If someone casts a spell asking for a measurement and they are told "10 miles," is that 10 miles from their perspective, 10 miles from the perspective of whoever invented the measurement spell, 10 miles according to some third "universal" perspective, or something else entirely?

3: Again from my previous comment, the precise limitations of spells are assumptions and generalisations made for the purpose of codifying into a game. In the actual fiction, spells are quite variable dependent on the caster and their abilities. The only general assumption we can actually make is that a set of repeatable actions yield roughly the same result: if you rub a glass rod with a bolt of fur and sing the chorus of Tubthumping backwards, lightning appears. The reason that in the current edition of the game we have somewhat concrete descriptions of spells is that we as the players require a certain level of abstraction in order to play the game; The GM shouldn't need to have an idea of wind speed, the aerodynamics of the flier, and all other forces in order to make a quick decision to determine how the flier flies. Some randomness of outcome is still evident on the modern game rules, such as the damage from spells being random and spells like sleep affecting a random number of creatures. Older editions were a lot more meticulous with this.

Edit: specifically tackling Wish, assuming even a perfect casting would not yield a perfect map. Check out the Coastline Paradox for a real world example of how natural bodies such as coastlines fail to have well-defined length. No amount of arbitrary precision measurement is going to change the facts that coastlines and waterways have fractal dimension.

4: At least in 5e rules as written (and I dislike this and usually houserule it when forced to play D&D), with the exception of protection scrolls, reading a spell scroll requires caster to have the given spell on their spell list.

There are a couple things that need addressing in this line or argument.

First is a certain assumption of rigour in logic; rigour in proof was a very nebulous thing until concrete efforts to codify rigour in the 19th century. We used to simply assume Euclid’s Elements was true because it was old, reasonably argued, and some easier results were verifiable. There’s no guarantee that Forgotten Realms wizard, who lives in a magical late renaissance analogue, would hold a scientific philosophy similar to our modern philosophy, rather than having a scientific philosophy similar to that of a renaissance scientist.

Supplementary to the first point, there is also the question of religion. Given how much the Catholic church impeded scientific progress that challenged their worldview, we could expect the many churches of the FR pantheon - many with opposed views to one another - to interfere with scientific progress.

The second point comes from the measurement units used in the rulebooks of the game. Unless we’re accepting that FR society independently came up with the imperial system or a measurement system that translates rather cleanly to the imperial system, we can assume that the measurements in the game book are approximations for the purpose of ease of use to the player. I doubt a wizard in canon is calling a distance “about 10 feet” and Ed Greenwood is just doing the common fantasy thing of “translating their language and measurements to a form understandable by earthlings.”

The third point is the Wish issue. The Wish spell is undeniably the strongest spell in the canon and requires a wizard of tremendous power to cast. Given the hubris of powerful wizards in the Forgotten Realms and fantasy in general, it’s doubtful that a wizard would use their one 9th level spell per day to either altruistically progress the knowledge of the realm or to improve mapping methods to sell a better map. If a wizard were to use their strongest spell for something as trite as monetary gain, That same knowledge gained from a Wish could be hoarded and exploited for substantial personal gain.

Finally, there’s the time commitment. You mentioned using Find Familiar to measure distances but that still requires a wizard in the field, essentially using a sentient trundle stick. Mapping requires a ridiculous level of effort from a huge team of surveyors, and is almost always backed by a government. The Sword Coast, where all the main plot happens in FR canon, is a handful of city states and frontier towns in a wild region. The Open Lords of Waterdeep would probably have hired a set of wizards to accurately calculate the acreage of farmers fields in the immediate vicinity. For something like the distance from Baldur’s Gate to Elturel, distances would be approximate, about 200 miles or 10 days travel with time to pray at every shrine.

It baffles me every time I see a sov cit state there is no victim, because the plaintiff is the state, that they can’t figure out that the state is representing the citizens of that state, who are the victims.

Far too easy to make a boning joke for Valentine’s Day

Are you effectively synergising your party? Martial characters have multiple actions, while casters typically get one.

If you’re frustrated with 35% hit chances then you could focus on using some members of your party to debuff the enemy and buff the hard hitters; this has much better damage output than all 4 party members just slinging attacks with hit chances below 65%. If you want to just blast with all 4 characters then that’s a valid play but it isn’t guaranteed to be viable.

I dunno, the only other leftists that annoy me are browbeat merchants like Thought Slime.

So 56 years is so long ago as to be ancient history that has no impact on the politics of today? Everyone involved in the conflict is less than 56 years old? Learn to actually form an argument, instead of calling fascist at the first opportunity, especially when you’re arguing on the side of Likud.

It’s impossible to view the October attack in isolation when it is a direct consequence of the chain of events and continuous prolonged period of hostility described in my previous comment. Pull a different one.

That’s what I’ve been saying. I’ve only ever been calling bad things bad. I was saying that fish and chips from a take away is bad and shouldn’t be recommended as some exemplar of British cuisine

Sure, if you insist. Though the barrier for “nice” is really low. If you like beer that isn’t Stella or Carling, you’re not calling beer trash in general.

I like fish and chips from an actual restaurant or homemade. With the exception of the Magpie in Whitby, which is a restaurant with an attached take away, every take away fish and chips I’ve had has been flavourless chunks of varying textures.