For fucks sake. This division could lead to the momentum folks causing the labour party to split into factionalism again and lose the upcoming GE. Starmer isn't going to be able to do much to affect any ceasefire or literally anything in the conflict whilst in opposition, but if the Tories squeeze out another 5 years the UK will be in a dire dire state. Keep your eyes on the fucking goal.
this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2023
34 points (94.7% liked)
UK Politics
3110 readers
78 users here now
General Discussion for politics in the UK.
Please don't post to both !uk_politics@feddit.uk and !unitedkingdom@feddit.uk .
Pick the most appropriate, and put it there.
Posts should be related to UK-centric politics, and should be either a link to a reputable news source for news, or a text post on this community.
Opinion pieces are also allowed, provided they are not misleading/misrepresented/drivel, and have proper sources.
If you think "reputable news source" needs some definition, by all means start a meta thread. (These things should be publicly discussed)
Posts should be manually submitted, not by bot. Link titles should not be editorialised.
Disappointing comments will generally be left to fester in ratio, outright horrible comments will be removed.
Message the mods if you feel something really should be removed, or if a user seems to have a pattern of awful comments.
!ukpolitics@lemm.ee appears to have vanished! We can still see cached content from this link, but goodbye I guess! :'(
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I'd be absolutely stunned if Labour found a way to lose the next GE based on a foreign policy issue.
I'm also not sure how voting for a ceasefire in a conflict that's seen over 11,000 dead civilians in a month can be construed as a bad thing.
Had Starmer not ordered his MPs to abstain I'm going to assume there would be significantly more than the 50 or so who voted with this motion.
Keep your eyes on the fucking goal.
The goal is moral and ideological purity, right? Right?
Actually I'm torn like most lefties on this. I see the constant self-damage in the Labour Party's tendency to split into ideological factions. But I also admire people who are principled enough to quit their jobs because they can't accept this implicit support for a horrific military campaign. It's the old, difficult question of whether to dissent silently (and ineffectively?) from the inside or openly (and ineffectively?) from the outside.
And yes, if the Tories win the next election I can't imagine the state the country will be in a few years later.
Good. I hope more follow. Those who voted against... I feel sick thinking about these people.
Yeah, resigning over something we can do nothing about.
That'll show 'em.
It's true that not the UK, not the EU, and sure was hell not even the US can stop what's unfolding on our screens physically.
But diplomacy is about sending signals and messages of which the message of a ceasefire from the UK House Of Commons is a very powerful one. Having a large number of MPs calling for a ceasefire is doing something.
Hamas have no intention of abiding by a ceasefire, so calling for one is essentially saying that Hamas can attack Israel all they like but Israel can't fight back.
Israel has slaughtered 5000 kids and dropped the equivalent of two Hiroshima nukes on the most densely populated strip of land on earth. They've "fought" back plenty.
While Hamas exists, there will always be a threat to Israel.
Also, it's funny how no one blames Hamas for using Palestinians as human shields. It's always "why would the Israelis do this?" "The Israelis must stop" "Israel is a fascist state" blah blah blah.
Israel literally drops flyers into areas where they're going to bomb, to let civilians escape. Hamas tells those people to stay, because it's in the interests of Hamas for more civilians to die.
Sorry but this is some "stop hitting yourself" bullshit. It's illegal to bomb hospitals. Nobody is forcing Israel to do that. They are deliberately choosing to do that.
It's not illegal to bomb hospitals if they're being used for military purposes.
That applies to any building. It makes it a legitimate target.
At some point you've got to balance the interests of destroying your enemies and trying to minimise civilian casualties. Israel is only doing the former. Even if they destroy Hamas, their actions will cause more people to take up arms against them. Remember that 20-year-long war on terror we just finished? Didn't work, did it?
You're just repeating Israeli talking points. Hamas is a product of Israel's brutal occupation of Palestinian land. There will always be resistance to that occupation just as Israels war against the PLO in the 1980s did not end Palestinian resistance. There is no military solution to Israeli apartheid of 5 million people.
Minority group, in an opposition party, in a country that has no say, over a conflict that has no real effect on us.
If it doesn't affect anything, why didn't Starmer give a free vote?
This is the best summary I could come up with:
A wave of Labour frontbenchers including senior MP Jess Phillips have resigned in order to back an SNP motion calling for a ceasefire in Gaza.
Rachel Hopkins, Sarah Owen and Andy Slaughter have also left their frontbench roles after breaking the party whip to back the amendment.
Two parliamentary private secretaries, Dan Carden and Mary Foy, have also left the frontbench, with 56 Labour MPs rebelling in total to back the SNP amendment.
The Labour Party has been divided over its approach to the Middle East conflict, with numerous MPs and some members of the shadow frontbench calling for a ceasefire - something Sir Keir Starmer does not currently support.
The Labour leader has backed the UK Government's position of pushing for humanitarian pauses in the fighting to allow aid to reach Palestinians trapped in the bombarded territory but stopping short of calling for a total cessation of hostilities - saying that would "embolden" Hamas.
She told the Politics Hub with Sophy Ridge: "We have to make our positions clear... our job in Parliament is to use our platforms to convince people, which is what I did in the chamber earlier.
The original article contains 676 words, the summary contains 191 words. Saved 72%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
What a pair of stupid political parties the main two are.
Jesus fucking Christ.