this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2024
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It's the dunk tank.

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CW: brainworms isntrael frothingfash ukkkraine

https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-3-031-25399-7_82-2

Brainbroken by October 7th, Zak Cope has done a 180 on his prior work, which focused on the unequal development of nations under the global capitalist economy, to writing propaganda pieces on how the liberal global US-led economic order must be maintained to ensure "free trade".

Having been committed to the toxic Marxist perspective for more than half my life, it ultimately proved impossible for me not to perceive the consistent and century-old pattern of far-left apologetics for every conceivable atrocity committed by avowed enemies of the West (including war crimes and genocide), these typically starting with denial, moving to excuse, and ending in justification. This was starkly highlighted in the leftist response to the bestial violence unleashed by Hamas terrorists in Israel on October 7, 2023. Laboring under Marxian fantasies for so long, following the shock of recognition in witnessing such moral and intellectual decrepitude its dissolution in my mind was precipitate.

He proceeds to argue that, "following free trade principles of comparative advantage can benefit all countries" and that US military supremacy is necessary due to Russia threatening, "the liberal international order upon which free trade is grounded."

The link he offers to explain October 7 and why it desensitized him from the left is this one:

https://k-larevue.com/en/the-october-7th-pogrom-as-a-non-event-on-the-western-left/

This is what he cited as a good explanation of October 7 and the reason he left the left(tm)

The structurally equivalent totalitarian ideology with communism on the left today – the contemporary opium of the intellectuals – is antizionism.

A number of times, the Palestinian leadership notoriously refused any peace agreement that would have resulted in a free Palestinian state living alongside Israel, insisting on conditions that could only be conceded at the cost of Israel itself. This was particularly true of their insistence on the absolute right of “return” for Palestinian “refugees” who left, or who were expelled, in 1948. This seems to be good evidence that their political leadership actually focuses on extinguishing the existence of a Jewish state more than on the founding of their own country. This is the most unfortunate for Israel, which has to maintain the partial occupation of the West Bank, with devastating consequences also for its own society.

Religious fundamentalism is only the most recent and extreme outgrowth of this basic moral fundamentalist appeal for “justice”. In fact, “Justice for Palestine!” is the slogan that anchors its derivative ones we are seeing today: “From the river to the sea”, “(Globalize the) Intifada!”, “Apartheid Israel”, etc. This deeply immoral moral fundamentalism has been widely accepted in the West as a “liberation movement” by wide parts of public opinion, while its religious fundamentalism and Nazi-like messianic antisemitism is still not being acknowledged.

In contrast, this thinking automatically absolves even its most inhumane and barbarian enemies who in any other context would be considered as the enemy of humanity as a whole. This is worse than Holocaust denial: this is the outright justification of all potential Holocausts.

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[–] BelieveRevolt@hexbear.net 66 points 3 months ago (1 children)

the liberal international order upon which free trade is grounded

If you talk about this in a positive way, you weren't that committed to the ”toxic Marxist perspective”.

Nazi-like messianic antisemitism

jesse-wtf

Cope kelly

[–] milk_thief@hexbear.net 40 points 3 months ago

Free Trade?? What THE HELL is going on with this man? This is literally all he argued against.

[–] EpicKebabEater@hexbear.net 57 points 3 months ago

"refugees" who were expelled

Are you hearing yourself?

[–] Gosplan14_the_Third@hexbear.net 53 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The person basing their worldview on moralism goes lib, what a surprise.

[–] milk_thief@hexbear.net 34 points 3 months ago (1 children)

have you read his works? His worldview previous to whatever the fuck this is was maybe moralizing (they without sin cast the first stone) but he was using a pretty materialist framework, here from the intro to divided world, divided class:

[–] milk_thief@hexbear.net 20 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] milk_thief@hexbear.net 35 points 3 months ago (2 children)

The book explains superstructure (racism, chauvinism, imperialism) via base, you have to concede, whether you agree on the arguments presented or not, that this is not a moralist base for his arguments.

Granted, I am myself puzzled how he could turn out like that. But a deep-seated moralist strain in his thinking imo is not the reason.

[–] Collatz_problem@hexbear.net 16 points 3 months ago (1 children)

A man with good understanding of his class interests aligns with his class interests, what's surprising here?

[–] milk_thief@hexbear.net 13 points 3 months ago

Nothing is "surprising" here. There is no sacred law that prevents marxists - especially western ones - from turning traitor. Still, as there have been a bunch of facile assumptions in the thread before somebody actually gave a decent answer, I really think it can't hurt to ask what exactly happened with him instead of going smuglord "I always knew it"

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Granted, I am myself puzzled how he could turn out like that. But a deep-seated moralist strain in his thinking imo is not the reason.

He's a settler in Belfast occupying Irish land.

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[–] RaisedFistJoker@hexbear.net 52 points 3 months ago (2 children)

he saw the form decolonisation will actually take, the righteous anger of the global south, realised what the implications of his work were, and started, true to his name, coping

[–] Tachanka@hexbear.net 13 points 3 months ago

fear of a JDPON planet

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[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 47 points 3 months ago

Another 1914 moment, Ukraine and Palestine really separated wheat from the chaff.

[–] Staines@hexbear.net 45 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (5 children)

People align with their class interests. Class traitors are exceptional.

It's not surprising that someone with a keen understanding of the global north/south divide would do a complete full fascist 180 when they are shocked into realigning with their class (global north) interests. They understand that their entire body of work is still legit, it's just that their class interest is to now denounce it because they are horrified by the implications.

The truth is, the global south has no reason to be kind to the global north once the tables have turned. The global south has no guarantee of becoming socialist, only the potential opportunity. The only certainty of multipolarity and global south development is that living standards in the global north will sharply decrease as the disparity balances out, and that can only really happen via counter-imperialist forces that are opposing imperial market penetration.

Competent imperialists have to understand marxist analysis too, because it's the only lens of analysis that actually makes makes sense at different scales. That's why, when the mask slips, the liberal platitudes morph into zero-sum conflict theory materialist assessments on how to maintain the empire. The real evil of how to dominate markets is done via materialist analysis and disguised with liberal fluff.

How does a global north third worldist stay sane in the face of what might happen, what we've done to others, and what might happen to us when the tables turn? I don't know yet, it's scary, but I'm not going to become an imperialist cheerleader.

[–] EmoThugInMyPhase@hexbear.net 21 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

How does a global north third worldist stay sane in the face of what might happen, what we've done to others, and what might happen to us when the tables turn?

It will be funny. But hopefully their reactions to me will be similar to the African militants during decolonization. “Let that man go! He is not white! He’s Italian.”

[–] HamManBad@hexbear.net 20 points 3 months ago

You stay sane by grilling matt-grillin

Seriously. There's a very good chance that the global north fights to the bitter end, and no amount of internal class struggle will turn northerners against their imperial interests at the scale necessary to avoid the fascist turn. If you can't leave, sometimes the only thing left to do is chill out, grill out, and contribute as little to the machine as possible. Simply resisting the urge to Cope, resisting the peer pressure to embrace fascism, lying flat and waiting for the inevitable victory of the international proletariat. Keep your mind sharp, organize with comrades when you can find them, and never stop posting. Other than that, just find innocent things you enjoy doing in life outside of politics and just try to keep your mind busy. An idle mind is Hitler's plaything.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk

[–] Tachanka@hexbear.net 15 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

How does a global north third worldist stay sane in the face of what might happen, what we've done to others

1st worlders often go into this premature panic where they think the day of reckoning is coming for them, and that some prole living in a trailer in Appalachia is going to be executed by firing squad alongside the stockbroker in Manhattan, or the silicon valley exec, or the 4 star general, or the EU official with a nazi grandpa, and they imagine that some kind of mass Revolutionary Tribunal is going to happen against the entire 1st world and everyone living in it, regardless of class, regardless of inner colonization, when what's far more likely to happen is a slow realignment, a slow decline of the core, a slow rise of the periphery. England still exists. Germany still exists. When the British Empire declined, when the 3rd reich collapsed, there was no "day of reckoning" against the common people there. Hell, even a lot of the explicitly guilty got away with everything they did. So I think it's overly optimistic/pessimistic (depending on your class interests) to imagine some kind of gigachad revolutionary tribunal where every last NATO citizen is executed for their complicity or whatever. This isn't to say that "nothing ever happens" or that everyone in the 1st world is innocent, mind you. I don't think the average American is going to suffer 1/10th of what the average person in Gaza has suffered, even in the most optimistic third worldist outcome.

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[–] AmericaHaterSexHaver@hexbear.net 12 points 3 months ago (5 children)

I dream of the day that im executed

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[–] milk_thief@hexbear.net 42 points 3 months ago

pretty disappointing. "Shock of recognition" is a title of Sakai on fascism - pretty sure that is intentional

[–] RNAi@hexbear.net 36 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Defending and denying the Nakba atrocities and war crimes cuz the brown people cheered at whitish civilians getting some violence this time against them

Yep it's Western Left^TM^ time

Also to the people talking about moralism, whatever that is, I'm an anti-yank rule-of-thumber "contrarian" cuz the yank empire is the most evil shit you can distile, look at the world dog

[–] Diuretic_Materialism@hexbear.net 30 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Yep it's Western LeftTM time

This time just seems weird cuz this dudes whole thing was pointing out why the west has no left.

This is like if J Sakai went neocon after 9/11.

[–] milk_thief@hexbear.net 16 points 3 months ago

people really don't understand that this was not some random idiot (apparently he is tho, lmao) teaching "the marxist subjectivities of the Bee movie" but a guy who talked about economic imperialism while dutch users of r/chapotraphouse (iirc) tried to phonebank for Bernie

[–] RNAi@hexbear.net 11 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

Does he at least have family in the apartheid state?

[–] PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS@hexbear.net 29 points 3 months ago (2 children)

He's Anglo-Irish apparently. Presumably he had a vision of the Catholic hordes paragliding into Belfast

[–] bunnygirl@hexbear.net 22 points 3 months ago

Presumably he had a vision of the Catholic hordes paragliding into Belfast

waow

[–] miz@hexbear.net 14 points 3 months ago
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[–] milk_thief@hexbear.net 14 points 3 months ago

The point is not whether moralism is "good" or "bad", but whether Zack Cope used some kind of Moralist Reasoning (thinking in "good/bad" terms) when developing his theory (he didnt, he was a Marxist).

[–] neo@hexbear.net 35 points 3 months ago

You don't have to be a Marxist to understand what's happening in Palestine to Palestinians is wrong. You just need an honest accounting of the facts to make that judgement.

[–] Zuzak@hexbear.net 30 points 3 months ago

Zak Seethe.

[–] PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS@hexbear.net 29 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I heard he's Belfast Anglo-Irish, so it may be the decolonial aspect of Oct 7th that broke his tiny mind

[–] EmoThugInMyPhase@hexbear.net 27 points 3 months ago (1 children)

He’s scared of what will happen in Ireland by the end of 2024 data-revolutionary

[–] ashinadash@hexbear.net 13 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Who and why would fear Irish reunification? Other than UK feds I guess.

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[–] Sam@hexbear.net 19 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yeah but its not like October 7th would happen in 2024 NI, Loyalist support of Israel is simply a reactionary stance brought on by Nationalist support of Palestine. I think the reason is more that he is, like many people here, incredibly adverse to paramilitary violence. It's easy to see how a person with a Loyalist background with a "civility" mindset could be shocked into returning to their traditional Right Wing Loyalist roots when seeing the Left wing Nationalists support what they see to be a unforgivable act of violence similar to the Troubles.

Then again who the fuck knows maybe he got converted by Facebook or is just being opportunistic, maybe he recently got married or divorced or a million other personal things that lead to these kinds of changes.

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[–] milk_thief@hexbear.net 14 points 3 months ago

this is most likely it. Thank you. Actual good explanation

[–] Evilphd666@hexbear.net 29 points 3 months ago

theory-gary capitalism is empirically inseparable from imperialism

isntrael is an imperalist colonial project.

maybe-later-honey Oh I don't want to sound antisemetic because I can't not conflate isntrael and Zionism with all of the Jews and Judaism. People are citing my works as an example of capitalsm and imperalism. I don't want to be called antisemetic and I was given these straight up Zionazi talking points to cover my ass and remain published. /s

You get ONE good shot at the establishment - ONE. Then they either turn you to stay in good graces .

[–] hello_hello@hexbear.net 25 points 3 months ago

I do like that even though he finds himself on the side of Zionism he's too "intellectual" to actually be duplicitous like most hasbara Zionists. He's the completely serious antisemite.

He openly admits to the illegal occupation of the West Bank and the Nakba. Two big no nos for Hasbara experts since you can't out explain that.

This guys just a rat and I hope the leopards find his old writings and eat his face soon.

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 24 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Stroke?

Big check? brrrrrrrrrrrr

brainworms ?

Covid Brain Damage?

PFAS?

[–] jack@hexbear.net 20 points 3 months ago
[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 13 points 3 months ago

Settler solidarity

[–] heggs_bayer@hexbear.net 24 points 3 months ago (2 children)

My greatest fear is turning out like this.

[–] Justice@lemmygrad.ml 21 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Barring some major life changing injury to the brain (this is not meant in a joking way. Being serious) or like dementia or something... I don't believe these people when they act like something changed their worldviews. Once someone is over like 30 their views are basically cemented for life. They can change, anyone can change, but that (in my opinion...) requires massive personal exposure to something that sparks a chain of events leading to radicalization in a different direction. For someone to just light switch flip into "oh, actually, fuck all that shit I said: the browns do deserve it after all!" to be legitimate and not just a fallback on previously held (maybe dormant or like subconscious, but down there somewhere) racist convictions gained earlier in life, it would take some extreme shit done to them personally. If one day you're sympathetic to people because they're people, and you see a protester say something you object to for whatever reason, and decide that those people the protester is advocating for should die because your feelings were hurt momentarily... am I crazy here? Like clearly you never believed in that. You just took what you perceived as a moral stance just to say you were doing so right up until it annoyed you too much then immediately flipped into the reactionary stance.

Maybe I'm too cynical or whatever, but I just don't believe dumbass libs when they say "heuhheuh the left heuh is actually the heuhhgh" then drool starts dribbling out of their mouths mid "thought". No one actually believes that bullshit. Even the Nazis know they're lying about it and they can't help but give it away while in the middle of the lies. So, I just don't believe it. They know better, they're just ideologically opposed to the left and because they're worms (in all the ways) they happily lean into fascist rhetoric when they view it as helpful for them to dismiss the left. It doesn't work though when one side is like "Israel is literally shredding babies... we can make them stop" and the right wingers are like "we want Israel to shred more babies, actually and also we would like someone to shred all the Jews too. Check out my pepe pfp guys!" No one with a functioning brain thinks these are the same. So the libs get mad and flail around. They do anything except turn off the baby shredder...

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[–] Tachanka@hexbear.net 17 points 3 months ago

"you either die based or you live long enough to see yourself become cringe" - mr. coin toss man

[–] imaginaryplaces@hexbear.net 24 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

How did he turn into such a racist piece of shit like some fucking sleeper cell activation. Academic left moment. Using terms like barbarian...

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 18 points 3 months ago

He's a settler in occupied Ireland. Not hard to imagine the Anglo settler chip in his brain activating when he sees the Indigenous take up arms against settlers.

[–] Tachanka@hexbear.net 13 points 3 months ago

yeah, it's bonkers. part of me understands why conspiracy heads go full "they were killed and replaced with clone"

[–] CliffordBigRedDog@hexbear.net 21 points 3 months ago

Sounds like Cope

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 18 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Settlers right yet again. "There are better books than Settlers"-cels BTFO

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[–] EmoThugInMyPhase@hexbear.net 17 points 3 months ago
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