this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2023
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Linux

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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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Not everything actually requires a GUI, obviously. But anything that requires configuration, especially for controlling a hardware device, should have a fully functional GUI. I know Linux is all about being in control, and users should not be afraid to use the command line, but if you have to learn another bespoke command syntax and the location and structure of the related configuration files just to get something basic to work then the developer has frankly half arsed it. Developers need to provide GUI's so that their software can be used by as many people as possible. GUI's use a common language that everyone understands (is something on or off, what numeric values are allowed, what do the options mean).

Every 12 to 18 months I make an effort to switch to Linux. Right now I'm using Archlinux, and it has been a successful trip so far, except my audio is screwed, I can't use my capture card at all, I had issues with my dual displays at the start, and the is no easy way to configure my AMD graphics card for over clocking or well anything basic at all.

I'm not looking for a windows clone, I love that I can choose different desktop environments and theme many of them to death. I even like the fact there are so many distros. Choice is a big part of linux, but there is clearly a desire to get more people moving away from Windows and until that path is 95% seamless most people just won't. Right now I think Linux is 75% to 85% seamless depending on the use case and distro but adding more GUI front ends would, imho, push that well into the 90% zone.

GUI is not a dirty word, it is what makes using a new OS possible for more people.

EDIT: Good conversation all. This is genuinely not intended to be a troll post, I just feel it is good to share experiences especially on the frustations that arise from move between OSes.

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[–] matt@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Your issue seems less the command line and that things aren't "working", or the tools you want aren't pre-packaged.

Using Arch Linux was not the best idea if you want something that "just works", as it works on a philosophy where you install the minimum amount required and then add things, such as drivers or packages, as you need them. In other words, it's a distribution where you know what you need for your system. It is also a command-line centric distribution, so it's strange that "GUI" is your bug bear when you picked one that deliberately forces command line.

Regarding overclocking and GPU configuration, you just get CoreCtrl, which even has a GUI.

Now don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree that everything should have a user interface as much as possible, but the whole "Linux means you have to use command line all the time!!" is simply just not true anymore, and I feel this issue comes from people recalling memories from 10 years ago or using distributions where command line is necessary, rather than something like Ubuntu or Linux Mint where it mostly isn't.

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[–] jherazob@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Entitlement: the post!

[–] StarServal@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (5 children)

The disregard for simplicity and/or outright hostility towards ease of use and centralizing settings I see in the comments here is the primary reason Linux will never replace that other OS as the home computer OS. This culture of elitism, and yes it is elitism, is harmful to that cause. I see this attitude almost every time someone expresses frustration towards Linux for an issue that other OSs have overcome (or significantly lessened) literally decades ago.

There is, arguably, a sense of entitlement for wanting free software developers to ‘do the thing’, but that’s not a Linux problem. Free software exists on all platforms, and those developers still manage to follow the OS’s design philosophy.

The standard user should never, ever, ever have to use a CLI for anything ever, nor should they need to have a Linux Guy on speed dial to be able to solve a basic general issue. You might argue that an issue on those other OSs might need someone to open a CLI or dig into a settings file to fix, but those times are so few and far between that the average user may never have to do it in their lifetime. Meanwhile it seems like every solution to a Linux issue begins first thing with opening terminal.

User friendly flavors of Linux have made great strides towards making things much closer to those other OS design philosophies, and that’s great, but they’re not quite there yet. I’m also not saying every flavor of Linux needs to follow this pattern, as not every problem calls for a hammer. The problem is that Linux is still very much a Wild West OS where anything goes, hidden behind a roughly painted GUI facade.

[–] Zangoose@lemmy.one 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But most of the comments on this post really aren't elitist. Most desktop tools are made by volunteers (with the exception of SUSE, Canonical, Red Hat, etc. who mostly deal with running on servers) and those volunteers only have so much time to work on projects. If they don't have time/knowledge to build GUIs when the terminal is "good enough" for their use cases, why should they?

If someone else needs the GUI, they can develop a frontend separately (which also gives people the choice of being able to cut down on software they don't need if they only use the terminal interface)

Personally, my take on this is that Linux isn't mainstream for a reason. Windows/macOS still exist and (privacy concerns aside) function well. It would be amazing if Linux could become more beginner friendly, but let's not try to act like desktop Linux developers who are already giving up their time owe it to us to do even more.

[–] StarServal@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

All I’m saying is that people shouldn’t be immediate turned away from Linux whenever they bring up a failing of the platform by the people who live and breathe CLI.

It would be good for Linux flavors intended for desktop OS use to have some kind of style guide. Developers who are donating their valuable time don’t have to follow it, but it would at least give them all a sort of unified target so they don’t have to constantly reinvent the settings wheel.

[–] falsem@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Have you seen the schizophrenic configuration experience on Windows in the last 10 years? Sure, it's a GUI but it's not a good one.

[–] StarServal@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah, they keep changing their minds on how they want that unified settings window to look and never fully retiring the old way. It’s like that XKCD comic about so many standards.

Trust me, I’ve complained about that exact thing a ton too.

[–] pjhenry1216@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

GUI doesn't make things simpler except for people who can't grasp the absolutely insane simplicity of CLI. It's the underpinning of everything and makes everything work so much better. Automation and customization is made easier through CLI.

GUIs hardly centralize anything. There's no standard place to put settings in a GUI. And have you seen GUIs created by many dev-first folks? Devs should rarely be in charge of frontend stuff. Front end development is for front end developers. It's a different class of individuals.

Linux won't catch on as long as new users are lazy. Every generation, that becomes more and more. I thought gen z would be better with PCs but they're only familiar with iOS and Android it seems. No wonder a CLI is scary. They have no actual experience with how to use a computer.

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