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(Audio of the) Mandatory meeting after Madison's departure from LMG. (www.reddit.com)

submitted 1 year ago by bacondragonoverlord@feddit.de to c/linustechtips@lemmy.ml

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(OP's comment)

I've been in contact with quite a few LMG employees. Many have given me statements about the abuse and sexual harassment Madison endured while working there.

One of them also gave me a recording of this meeting that was never supposed to be released. This is my proof that I have talked to LMG employees and have sources inside. I post this as verification of that fact.

I cannot out these people or give direct quotes out of fear they will suffer consequences, but I hope they come forward publicly even if it means risking their careers.

I can tell you their accounts match hers. And even go into further detail. One person constantly was mentioned more than others, but she's not naming names so I won't either.

She is telling the truth.

This meeting kinda goes along with how she mentioned her being sexually harassed was regarded as he causing drama.

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[–] bacondragonoverlord@feddit.de 126 points 1 year ago (13 children)

Transcription by u/Elnachohat

Transcription if you're having trouble hearing:

(speaker 1, Linus) So we called this meeting because it's come to our attention that we need to have a quick chat about the best way to handle HR related feedback and rumors. We won't be giving any names for what I hope are extraordinarily obvious reasons, but what we can do is give you the following guidelines for problem solving and conflict resolution.

Sorry that this is all boring and corporate, but here we are. Number one, always stand up for what's right. We're only a team as long as we're all working together and working for each other. That's the most important one. Number two, always reflect on your own personal experiences and use your common sense. Few things in life are truly black and white. Number three, always wait to hear both sides of a story before passing your own judgment. Be cautious when you know that one side is bound by legal and ethical disclosure guidelines, when the other is not. Carefully consider what it says about the character of someone who would engage in that type of gossip against someone who has no power to defend themselves.

Number four, always encourage openness and transparency. If you have a problem, you need to speak up. We want to fix it. If you receive feedback about somebody else at this company, the first response is, have you spoken with this person? Followed closely by, you need to speak with this person. We don't solve interpersonal issues here, or really anywhere in your life, if you wish to live in a drama free zone, by engaging in water cooler politicking. So, if for any reason that individual is not comfortable approaching the person they're having a conflict with, we have a chain that they're supposed to follow.

So first, you advise them to take the problem to their manager. Followed by me or Yvonne, followed by our third party HR firm. I hope that you all trust that we're here to make this a safe, fun, and productive workplace, and we won't tolerate mistreatment of any of our team members.

If you have any reason to believe otherwise, then I refer you again to point number four, which is to address the issue with the individual directly, or bring it to me or Yvonne, or bring it to our third party HR firm. Since I'm not at liberty to share any details about what occurred, uh, all I can do is ask that you trust me and Yvonne.

Um, some of you know us very well, I've been here a very long time, um, some of you have not been here for as long, but I like to think that whether you've been here for nine years or nine days, you're here for a reason and you believe that we are utmost to run this company with integrity and compassion.

Um, We can't solve problems we don't know about though, so on that note, I'd like to invite anyone who has concerns about a fellow team member or about a manager to submit their feedback either by speaking with their manager, me or Yvonne directly, or if you would prefer to provide your feedback anonymously, we have an option for that as well.

It's the manager and co worker feedback form. Uh, Yvonne, if you're not aware of it, show of hands who is not aware of it. Hey, a lot of people aren't aware of it. Good, so now we all know. There's an anonymous form, if for whatever reason you're not comfortable, (inaudible) you can talk to me or Yvonne directly about it (inaudible) in the general chat.

It's a safe space to provide us ideas for improvement, or if you're consumed by the holiday spirit and you want to say nice things, you can do that too. Does anybody else have any questions?

Not a single questions? Wow, that must have been a really good speech.

(speaker 2, James)You gonna dance on that table, or just stand on it?

(speaker 1, Linus)That's it! So, um, Yvonne, did you have anything you wanted to add?

(speaker 3, Yvonne)(inaudible) Somebody said (inaudible) if you guys want to sanitize your hands, help yourself with free (inaudible)?

(speaker 1, Linus)Yeah, that was actually just totally random timing. It came up the stairs a moment ago. Dennis is on it. Alright. Thank you everyone. Have a wonderful and, uh, productive rest of your day. And weekend.

EDIT: added who was speaking. Don't know who speaker 2 is.

EDIT 2: I was told Speaker 2 is James

EDIT 3: Ivonne > Yvonne

EDIT 4: "near Yvonne directly" > me or Yvonne directly" and fixed that last thing Yvonne said

[–] ArtificialLink@yall.theatl.social 87 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

Sounds like a pretty standard meeting imo. Doesn't that mean they haven't committed transgressions or don't need to change. But for a company of their size at the time there is nothing particularly wrong with what was said here.

[–] maiskanzler@feddit.de 53 points 1 year ago (5 children)

There was a comment a bit similar to yours on the original reddit thread and I think it got a good reply by the OP. The main criticism was that their structure for escalating such problems is flawed. Talking to your manager about his/her misbehaviour isn't exactly the solution here.

[–] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Yup. It seems to me that Madison's case is one which anyone at LMG who cares, would not have been ok with, but that their policies have big enough cracks that it was still allowed to happen, and she didn't have an effective way to get herself heard.

Wanting to do the right thing, doesn't mean you automatically succeed in doing so.

[–] drlecompte@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 year ago

I can pretty much guarantee that this is not the only case. This is the tip of the iceberg.

[–] ArtificialLink@yall.theatl.social 12 points 1 year ago

Sure it's not necessarily a good structure but it is super common in tons of corporations and they also have alternatives. They are giving themselves as an option if you do not have a particular problem with said manager you can talk to them about problems in the office. it is not necessarily ideal for handling everything and can have its issues But it is often a first line of defense for interpersonal employee conflicts. The company I work for and trust me its very large has a similar structure. People can talk to managers or they can call the 1-800 HR line. If they do talk to a manager there is a specific guidelines for how it's escalated and reported within the company but trust me my company is much larger than LTT and they may not have those same policies in place yet.

I am not commenting on the allegations or who perpetrated them or what happened I want to make that clear. I am merely commenting on the fact that this meeting recording is nothing out of the ordinary. And is typically a structure you would see for a company this size and up. There were clearly problems in the system. And I am not going to discount anything anyone went through. And I sure hope these external investigations shed light on what exactly happened and the people responsible are held accountable. That said still don't see much wrong here.

[–] FunkyMonkey@feddit.de 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I don't like that comment by op. This structure is pretty standard and I think it's clear that if the manager was the problem that the options to discuss with higher ups or 3rd party HR are also there. Their comment that 3rd party HR is there to protect the company is also only a half-truth as letting these issues run rampant is a huge liability to the company itself (as we're seeing right now). HR would not doing its job properly by pushing issues like these under the rug.

Even worse, saying that HR always takes the side of the employer is a meme that discourages employees in bad situations from pursuing their very real options. This perception could have continued to her situation. If HR doesn't do their job, you can always escalate further.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If you're ever in a situation, even at a corporate situation, where you don't feel you can escalate an issue through the proper channels. You can always write a letter, certify it, send it to the company's headquarters legal counsel and HR. You can do it anonymously, because it's the mail which the company doesn't have any control over, and you know they will get it. And because it's documented and copied to three different departments they will act on it. You always have the method of anonymously contacting a company. If it's an interpersonal issue, where you will be identified no matter what, you at least guarantee that there's a paper trail.

If that's insufficient to notify people then you should be consulting with a labor attorney.

[–] pulaskiwasright@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That’s not the only option though. They could talk to her or the heads of the company. Yes they can talk to their manager too, but they have options.

[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Nahh, I don't know about you but I've never been in a corporate meeting where an employee publicly makes a stripper joke at the owner, during a meeting about sexual harassment. On top of that no one in the room reacts to it, including the head of HR present. Their work environment is beyond fucked.

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[–] PixelPlumber@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It’s not ideal in a few ways, but I think the bigger thing here is at least one employee is willing to risk their job to prove that they agree with her and use the recording as identity proof

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[–] baseless_discourse@mander.xyz 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

One thing I noticed from a brief glance is that they mentioned that they have anonymous report form to the verge, while hiding the fact a lot of people are not aware such form existed at the time Madison worked there.

[–] ArtificialLink@yall.theatl.social 5 points 1 year ago

Just bad training and communication within the company. Things that need to be fixed

[–] conciselyverbose@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

If you're at the point where you're hiring an outsider to investigate, you effectively have an obligation to let them do their job. That means staying out of the way, because anything you do poisons their inquiry.

If you weren't hiring an outsider and were investigating internally, you still wouldn't talk about it in a fucking meeting until you know what happened. You talk to each person individually to get their account. "Interrogating" witnesses in a group both violates the privacy of the (alleged) victim and lowers the quality of their recollection of events because they get shaded by everyone else.

The fact that people weren't aware of the appropriate method of elevating complaints is bad (though not as unusual as it should be). The rest is pretty standard.

[–] mranachi@aussie.zone 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think you are correct, this meeting in isolaton is fine. The indirect implications, however, is that this meeting constitutes the full internal review and response to an employee leaving in a disgruntled state. I obviously don't know that is true, however the fact that linus has admitted to being shocked by the allegations suggests that a the very least an effective HR exit interview hasn't happened.

If I was running a company, regardless of my position on personal care about my employees wellbeing, I'd want meetings such as the one in this post a routine. Not only 'when something happens'. I'd want one on one interviews in the cases like this. So that when things like a former employee comes out with allegations like this I'm not shocked, because I already know and tried to deal with them reasonable or I have solid grounds to claim that reasonable effort was undertaken to know these things were happening.

I don't know how it is in Canada, but C suite and board can have personal liability with duty of care to employees in Australia. Ignorance is not generally an excuse for a good reason.

[–] Kidplayer_666@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

If this in fact happened immediatly after Madison leaving, then it's worrying. If it's just a random meeting that has to happen for other reasons, then it's fine. All depends upon context

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[–] CameronDev@programming.dev 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, those are certainly the correct words, but without an insiders feel for the tone and sincerity, hard to know if it was enough. I hope the perpetrators were appropriately punished/dismissed, but that is something we may never know (nor have any right to know). Hopefully if this is a widespread issue, then others will come forward.

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[–] Bread@sh.itjust.works 82 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There is nothing in this audio recording that I find particularly concerning other than James' comment. It sounds just like a standard meeting that I would have had during a morning brief. Knowing the context of James' comment was directed at Linus, who is a close friend, probably smirked and kept on going.

When you add the context of sexual harassment, it doesn't look good and is an inappropriately timed joke. However, nothing about the meeting indicates that it was about sexual harassment in particular from listening to the audio. If I missed it, please inform me.

Maybe it is because I heard these types of conversations frequently, it doesn't seem like a big deal. They even say you can contact a manager, Linus or Yvonne, or the anonymous hotline. So people have options if they have a problem in particular with leadership.

I am not dismissing that sexual harassment may have taken place, but from the context from the audio given, it doesn't appear anyone speaking knows about it.

[–] sab@lemmy.world 52 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It does reinforce Madison's claim that they want to keep everything verbal, rather than put things on record with HR.

[–] nonearther@lemmy.ml 33 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is a big red flag already. A proper record is needed by any good and fair company.

There is even more concerning part where Linus discussed the order of complaints - first the immediate manager, then Linux/Yvonne, and the only third party HR.

This is big no no for any reputable company. If you feel harassed, you generally go to HR directly, you don't give managers any information.

Such managers are not equipped with HR related situations and by saying your piece to more people, you're ensuring that people you complaint about knows that you're making a complaint and they can use their power and sway you.

This is biggest issue for me in the video which essentially nullified the existence of HR in LMG if they are this far off to employees.

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[–] Syo@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

Isn't timing of this recording when company was at 50 people? Think they haven't gotten to full HR services yet, just HR for payroll and admin. Linus and Yvonne probablyb still handled staff issues directly. Not ideal, but not unexpected.

[–] Kaldo@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Same thoughts here, I was hoping it'd be some slam dunk evidence to support the stuff we've heard but if anything it just makes the waters even murkier. There's a 3rd party HR firm involved that she could have gone to? She said only Linuses wife was the HR there.

[–] MyFeetOwnMySoul@lemmy.ca 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The audio also indicated that many staff members did not know about the anonymous option

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[–] TimeMuncher2@kbin.social 45 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Doesn't look professional. Looks like a family run business meeting in the kitchen of a small restaurant where they blame the staff for all the problems.

[–] hitmyspot@aussie.zone 33 points 1 year ago

The point of the release seems to be to prove that they have insider infoz not to say this audio release is damning. It just adds credence to other information.

[–] magnor@lemmy.magnor.ovh 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Seems to confirm the fact that the complaints were not seen as more than gossip. This meeting sounds like a not so elaborate attempt at lid installation on a boiling issue.

[–] nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I don't quite get some of the responses in this thread.

I'm not here to defend Linus, I'm angry at him for whole lots of stuff that came out recently and earlier too, but if this recording is what we are solely supposed to go by, then I have to say he actually handled it well. What arose from the meeting is another issue, according to Madison nothing did, but I don't quite see what you guys expected? You wanted Linus to call out the person in a meeting who harassed her?

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