this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2024
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UK Politics

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submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by HumanPenguin to c/uk_politics
 

This is opinion. So read it as such. But consider it please.

Obviously if you read this based on the title. I assume you oppose the Tories.

But if you are wondering why labour are so keen to manage expectations. There is a reason.

Campaign funding wise the Tories are estimated to be 19m ahead of labour. But honestly at the moment they are not spending a huge amount more.

We know the Tories are skilled at election manipulation. So there is genuine fear that the Tories plan to launch a campaign within the last few days.

I.E. when there is less time and funding to ensure fact checking is effective.

They know Starmer is more publicity aware then Corbyn was. He is able to play it in a way that dose not scare traditional Conservative voters.

They also know thanks to Boris, that the courts are unable to punish them for outright lies during any political campaign. And that Rishi is prepared to lie about and accuse civil servants of lying when challenged.

As huge as polling is against the Tories. All it would take is some dramatic claim against the party or Starmer. To convince Tory traditional voters to bite their tongue and vote Tory. While convincing left wing voters not to vote or to switch to 3rd party in seats where labour are the 1st or 2nd party.

The fact we know they have a huge amount of money unspent. Makes it clear they plan to launch something nearer the end of the election. And the only advantage of leaving it so late. Is it will limit the ability of the party to effectively react. Or fact checkers to be able to prove and distribute evidence of lies.

Please be prepared for this.

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[–] Skua@kbin.earth 25 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (8 children)

Everyone, just please go and vote if you are able to. It's very little time out of your day and it's only once every few years. Remember that you do need photo ID this time

If you are interested in tactical voting, something our electoral system unfortunately incentivises, then there is https://stopthetories.vote/ to vote against the Conservatives

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[–] wren 21 points 5 months ago (8 children)

It's just getting more and more difficult to feel okay voting Labour. I know splitting the left wing vote isn't tactically smart, but voting for labour isn't even a left wing vote anymore :(

(I'm still pro-tactical voting, I'm just doing it with more frustration than ever before)

[–] jabjoe 17 points 5 months ago (19 children)

There will literally be Tory trolls/bots pushing this narrative to split the Labour vote. Get the Tories out, then push Labour for PR, hard, to keep Tories out of unjust power.

[–] franklin@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

This is the exact same problem in the United States and even Canada right now. It's leading me to believe it's the inevitable conclusion of a first past the post system.

[–] jabjoe 8 points 5 months ago (3 children)

FPTP has to go, but the further right the government, the hard it is to push them for it. A right Labour is better odds then any Conservative flavor, and it's not like the Conservatives are moving left right now.

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[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 14 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (4 children)

Well it would be nice if there was anything left of the left in UK labour. At the moment all you got is a transphobic piece of shit that is just slightly left on economic issues.

Yall really gotta get better to scrub off the stain of the currently accurate description of being TERF island.

And of course I am painfully selfaware that I am saying this from America where our choices are between two genocidal fascists credibly accused of SA

Tactical voting ourselves right into death camps is not the strategy you think it is.

[–] wren 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Almost everyone hates FPTP, and we know it sucks, but unfortunately, tactical voting is a realistic option for most areas in the UK. I'm personally very likely to vote Green (or lib dem) as I'm in a safe Labour seat, and I won't conscionably vote Labour for a myriad of reasons (including being trans), but it's a bigger priority to get the Tories out than anything else right now.

More optimistically though: voting is one part of a large variety of things people can do to influence politics. Protests, voting locally, working with local and bigger organisations, writing to MPs, donating to causes we care about, etc. can all help offset the feeling of having to vote for a party you hate slightly-less than the worse one.

[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

I AM BEGGING YOU TO FUCKING DO MORE THAN VOTING AND STOP THINKING THAT VOTING IS GOING TO DO ANYTHING HOLY SHIT MAN.

I HATE that you fuckin libs think that politics ends at the ballot box and then when I say this this motherfucker makes up a strawman about me advocating political assassination.

You people are fucking useless.

[–] GreatAlbatross 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Please try to calm down a bit mate.

We can appreciate your frustration: It is not a fun situation when the main options for the government both support the horrible things happening in the Middle East.

I can promise you, we don't enjoy it either. People choose to vote tactically to put the most pressure on the lesser of two evils, and avoid an even more questionable result (CON+REF+DUP coalition, anyone?)

Hopefully, one day we can see AV coming into practice. And we can see MPs better representing the votes of the nation.

And until then, we can continue to put pressure on bad situations, via the small parties, via protest. But not by cutting off our noses to spite our faces.

Please be civil with people on feddit.uk. Shouting is not civil.

[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 8 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Please be civil

I will try to respect your rules better but I fundamentally disagree with civility/tone policing when it comes to literal genocide and people advocating voting for people facilitating said genocide.

Like I said before I got heated and that person strawmanned me saying I was advocating political assassinations. There is a world of action that needs to be taken outside of electoralism and focusing on elections and voting is something I feel is a distraction from What Is To Be Done.

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[–] Skua@kbin.earth 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Literally half of their goddamn comment is about doing other stuff. You're all over this thread getting mad at people for voting because you've just made up that that's the only thing they do.

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[–] HumanPenguin 7 points 5 months ago

I’m just doing it with more frustration than ever before

Pretty sure that represents the labour lead atm. Def folks wanting to vote against tories rather then for labour. Unfortunately it also leave the Tories with an open attack vector. They just need to time the right attack to dramatically split the left vote in Lab seats where they are still 2nd.

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[–] UKFilmNerd 17 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Some of the voters are a bit scary too. I keep hearing a clip from LBC where some asks Starmer if he would've been in Corbyn's cabinet.

Starmer kicked Corbyn out. That's years ago. Why are you still trying to link the two people still now.

Finally, who are the 20% that would still vote Tory? Rich business people with no ethics?

[–] HumanPenguin 8 points 5 months ago

Why are you still trying to link the two people still now.

Because that is where the Tories are likely spending some money. They keep bringing up the he supported Corbyn. They and the right wing of labour spent in the last election to destroy his reputation. So the Tory party sees it as a cheap attack to push the idea over social media.

I am a little disappointed that it is not answered with, how Rishi was willing to support a PM candidate with a racist publications in the media and later willing to lie to parliament to prevent their ability to shut down his policies.

[–] Espiritdescali@futurology.today 14 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Starmer purged the left wing from his party, he can't be surprised when they don't vote for him.

[–] HumanPenguin 6 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Agreed. But its not about starmer being good. Its about being less bad then the Tories.

FPTP is an utter fuck over of an electoral system. That leaves very few places where voting 3rd party or even not voting is not a vote for Tory rule.

Its unpleasant but a simple fact that evil is quantifiable. When your choice is limited via the voting system. Refusing to vote for the lesser of 2 evils basically means you support goes to the greater.

[–] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Agreed. But its not about starmer being good. Its about being less bad then the Tories

This is the same bullshit people use to justify voting for Biden.

[–] HumanPenguin 8 points 5 months ago (8 children)

Yep that is because under FPTP it is the truth. The US is one of the few other nations that use the shitty system. So yes if you refuse to vote Biden you are Basically giving your vote to the Trump camp.

Something only people who actually think trump will do less harm trhen biden should do.

And anyone who thinks that. Really is not worth listening to.

[–] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

So yes if you refuse to vote Biden you are Basically giving your vote to the Trump camp.

Ah, but I am also refusing to vote for Trump, so by the transitive properties of dumb fucking liberal math I am also giving my vote to the Biden camp

[–] HumanPenguin 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

If you genuinely cannot see a difference between the 2. Yep that is correct. But you are also more blind then I am.

[–] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 11 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (7 children)
  • Joe Biden ran against Trump's horrific immigration policies and wall building. Joe Biden is now pushing an immigration policy that is even worse than Trump's. Joe Biden has waived dozens of laws to facilitate the construction of Trump's border wall through environmental preserves.

  • Joe Biden ran against Trump's horrific foreign policy and trade war with China. Joe Biden has changed nothing, instead doing the opposite and pressing China even harder and stacking pathetic foreign policy blunders higher than Trump's stupid ass did.

  • Joe Biden refused to engage in any diplomacy with Russia. The war in Ukraine is a direct result of that.

  • Joe Biden is fully supporting Israel's horrific genocide.

Joe Biden and Donald Trump are both fascists.

If you genuinely think voting for a genocidal, racist, anti-immigrant bastard like Biden is going to do anything good, then I put it to you that you are a fascist.

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[–] BakedGoods@sh.itjust.works 8 points 5 months ago

Remind your elders that a vote for Tories or Reform will result in them being alone, in a terrible home, or in the street.

[–] ProfessorOwl_PhD@hexbear.net 7 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Tories are pretty boned, period, whenever they launch their last push - the actual threat are Reform, who will either form a coalition with whoever it takes to gain a majority in this election, or outright win next time after the PLP fundamentally change nothing.

[–] HumanPenguin 6 points 5 months ago (21 children)

Tories are pretty boned, period,

I am old enough to have thought that in the past. The money that backs the Tories will not give up. Given how open the party has been about its extrean right over the last few years.

Honestly until the 5th July it is very dangerous to think that way. All these predictions are based on 65 to 75% turn out. That is high. The Tories do not need to convince folks to vote Tory. They are better off stopping folks voting labour. At least in seats where a 3rd party is not closer to Tory in polling.

If they reduce turn out for labour while increasing support for more left of centre parties. They can do to labour what Corbyn did to may. Create a weak minority party where the existing devisions in the PLP prevent the party achieving much.

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[–] thr0w4w4y2@sh.itjust.works 6 points 5 months ago

jokes on them I already sent in my postal vote

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