South Africa really supports protecting the Palestinians from this genocide so at least 1

I read that as historians

FYI, it's "toe" the line, as in you put your toe on the line when you fall in order. It's a nautical term, since crews would line up on specific boards on the deck of a ship.

You didn’t hear the US state dept repeatedly claiming “Israel has a right to defend itself” for 6 straight months after the Hamas attack? They still won’t let corpo media use the term genocide, some high profile reporters have even resigned over it.

You haven't been to Lemmy.world then, lol.

It's likely that the use of "Western Liberals" here is meant to include both major US political parties.

I hear Americans use the term liberal all the time but the way they use it makes me think we're talkibg about different things

A liberal is someone who:

1. Upholds the modern nation state and is thus against monarchy (against whom the first liberals rebelled against)
2. Upholds capitalism and market economies, and with it property rights
3. Upholds electoral parliamentary systems of governance
4. Usually believes in some version of the social contract or similar theory from which the legitimacy of the nation state and capitalism is derived.

Anyone from the left complaining about liberals is using this definition of liberals (typically). The basic reasoning for using this definition if liberal is that it has always been the definition of liberal and has only changed recently in some parts of the world. It is also not necessary to change the definition because the "progressive liberals" also mostly fit the old definition either way. Pretty much every serious socialist political theory will start with a criticism of the philosophy of liberalism.

The simple issue is that this is genocide. Full stop.

And we should stop it. After that, let's look into the complex issue you're trying to raise. Conflating the two is how people justify doing nothing.

There's a difference between being a genocide and a complex issue, and using that it's a complex issue to justify/overlook a genocide

Western progressives and leftists are protesting, liberals by definition support current structures and systems to achieve populist goals, but humanitarian causes are not on their radar usually unless it's the most milquetoast issue that everyone can agree on.

As others have said here, the names of things have changed a lot, and this is made more confusing by the fact that a large portion of the population has no idea how this shift has taken place, and conservatives still refer to their hated enemy as "libs" because they're not very bright and names stick. It does throw them for a loop when you say "I'm not a liberal, I'm a leftist/progressive" and it's a good way to remind them how dumb they really are.

Can't believe I'm posting in a Palestine thread again but here we go. I think people aren't using the same words in the same way in this thread. In the last decade there has been a shift in how the word liberal is used. Two decades ago there were the neo-liberals, which said they were not big C conservative but were.

To separate themselves from the neo-liberals, liberals started calling themselves leftist. Which meant the neo-liberals as the only "liberals" remaining. So now the word liberal can mean a person on the left, or a person on the right, depending on the intent of the speaker.

So saying that the liberals are turning a blind eye to genocide is true, the speaker probably just means neo-liberals but ommitted the neo. Language is fluid, and confusing

No, leftists are protesting the genocide. Liberals aren’t leftists.

On Experts saying it, this is one example: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-expert-says-israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-calls-arms-embargo-2024-03-26/

On Israel saying it, this has enough for you to start your research: https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-south-africa-genocide-hate-speech-97a9e4a84a3a6bebeddfb80f8a030724

I find it funny.