this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2023
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Basically what I think about gun support. It's statistically awful to be around guns or be around those with guns. But we still have them and some of us fight for them because they feel safer when they're really, really not.
Guns aren't safe. They aren't supposed to be safe, or at least they aren't supposed to be any safer than any other tool. They are a tool that is very specifically designed to grant their user an increased ability to injure a target with ease from a safe distance. This ability grants the user an increased ability to hunt, to defend themselves, to defend their property and family, and yes to harm or kill other people and predators.
A hammer, a knife, a blunt object, and a car can all provide these same abilities with differing efficiency, but we still have them, too, even though they aren't necessary. You don't need to drive. Walk or take a bus. You don't need a hammer to drive nails. Use a rock instead. Although there is a famous story about a guy named Cain, that makes a strong argument for getting rid of rocks, too. No one needs a baseball bat. Those are only used for recreation, so it should be easy to get rid of those dangerous weapons, right? I'm sure we can get rid of those dangerous knives, too. Our ancestors didn't need them to survive, so I'm sure we can do without them to make the world a safer place.
This is why we have a rule that none of these things can be used for that thing about killing other people under threat of harm or death unless it was done under pretty specific circumstances.
You are statistically safer around a gun than you are around a ladder, but I'm guessing ladders aren't on your list of things to rid the world of for some reason.
I like how you ignore the fact you're statistically less safe if you own a gun.
No need to change the subject to ladders.
The point is whatever perceived safety you get from your human killing device is negated by having the device itself.
I didn't ignore it. It's just a dumb statement for someone to make. You are statistically less safe if you own a toaster. You are statistically less safe if you own a coffee table.
How many toes must be stubbed before we outlaw those tables and their dangerous and harmful legs! Think of the children!
You are statistically less safe from a lot of stuff, but we keep them around because they have an important use.
My gun isn't going to break into my house and kill me for the 10$ in my wallet, but my cracked up neighbors might. I'll take my chances with the gun.
What purpose do guns have other than violence? All the other things you mentioned are used for other things. Guns are for killing, and nothing else.
You seem to be implying that violence doesn't serve a purpose. But it certainly does, for instance in stopping violence.
Yes, but gun regulation has historically been proven more effective than gun against gun protection. For example, Australia's NFA in 1996.
Violence stopping violence. You have an interesting way of getting the world completely wrong.
Good luck with your non-violent protests in WW2 Normandy then I guess. Non-violence is a fine ideal, but breaks badly when the other person doesn't share your ideals.
I'm completely amazed that people can be this oblivious to how the world works. Perhaps you're very young and haven't read any history, or perhaps I just read you wrong?
I actually have a history degree, internet guy. It does not teach us that Prometheus gave us violence so we could raise ourselves out of the muck.
I do not believe you. You cannot have a history degree and be so ignorant of the countless of times violence has been used to stop violence. And since you didn't elaborate if your simplistic ad hominem had some context and nuance behind it, I have to assume that you meant your comment as it sounds.
Violence has perpetuated violence about 1000x more than it has led to the end of violence. Violence was a way of life for us way back. We’ve been moving away from that steadily. Trade > war. That’s the story of history. And anyway you have a problem of scope: trying to apply the allied resistance to the Nazis to the scope of personal firearm ownership in 2023. As if that’s not a giant cherry pick and leap across domains.
Your intellectual standing here is nil, chum. Your case is not made, your rhetorical approach is full of giant holes. All leading to the inexorable conclusion: yeah, an informed person disagrees with your perspective.
Shocking, I know. But hey, when reality disagrees with your narrative, discard reality, right? Back to your internet echo chamber, wherever that is…
Completely ignoring that a lot of guns are used for hunting and even more are used for sport (hey, just like a baseball bat). Guns are a deterrent and an equalizer. They increase a person ability to defend themselves and others from threats stronger or deadlier than they would otherwise be able to face or defend against.
I don't know who you are, but let's pretend you are a 4'10" 100lbs girl that lives in a small 6th floor apartment. What do you do to defend yourself from a 7' tall 280lbs man that just kicked in the door to your apartment? Do you grab a gun and try to put as many rounds as possible in his chest or do you just sit in the apartment and let him have his way with you until the police show up and then continue to stand outside because they think it might be too dangerous for them to actually help you? I mean, what if the man has an illegal gun? Imagine! A criminal with the audacity to have an item that you, a law-abiding citizen, are not allowed to have because they, as you put it, are only used for violence, something criminals are known to not take part in. 🙄
Guns are the best defense against someone or something that is trying to do you harm. That's the reason it's so high up on the Bill of Rights. Because life, liberty, and justice are only possible if you have the ability to stop someone from taking them from you. It's like our forefathers knew what life was like to come from a place where you were nothing more than a peasant and everything you had and were could be just taken away if the person with the shiny crown wished it or some back alley ripper would stab you dead for your pocket lint alone.
Yeah, because countries outside US are hellscapes. And everyone there is dying of illegal gun violence. No wait, US has one of the highest rate of death from gun violence. It's also one of the most unsafe countries in the western world. Makes you think...
Also, sports is a secondary usage for guns. They were developed for violence. Some people figured out that they're skilled at shooting. Hunting is a valid use, I'll give you that.
That's not really true if you look at per capita figures. USA is #18, with 4.46 firearm-related homicides per 100K. Compare to something like El Salvador, which was 71.60 per 100K in 2015.
USA is not fabulous in this departement obviously, but it's not like latin america. Specifically, it doesn't seem like the number of legally owned guns directly correlates with the amount of gun homicides. If you look at the top ten countries on gun ownership, all of them have the firearm-related homicides figure < 5.0 and 8 of them under 0.8.
Sure, but being better should always be the goal. Especially for the richest and most powerful nation on earth.
You think cavemen invented clubs and bats way back in the day to play baseball before they decided to use them to murder things?
Violence was pretty much the only thing contributing to human advancement until about the 14th century. Funny enough, the first gun was made around the 11th century.
Leave the US if it's such a hellhole. Go live in those other countries where you don't have to worry about how unsafe the US is if they are so great. And don't give some bullshit excuse like it's expensive, refugees from hellholes do it everyday and it's a great option for them to escape their shitty countries from what i hear. I hear Russian is really nice this time of year, maybe Ukraine? Last I heard, they were looking for more citizens. Maybe somewhere a little warmer like UAE? They seem to be doing pretty well for themselves, at least until that oil money runs out from the world switching to EVs and Green power.
I'll take my chances with gun violence. At least I can see a person with a gun coming for me. Can't say the same for a Malaria ridden bug or some refugee coughing TB all over the place.
According to this, guns would only be making the US a safer place since 2/3 of all US gun "violence" is the gun owner using it on themselves.
That would put the actual total gun violence deaths in the US at 13704, just a couple hundred higher than the 13384 drunk driving fatalities that happen in the US in 2021. So when are you going after Alcohol and Weed to be banned? Or do you feel drunk driving is just a secondary use for those so it doesn't count when worrying about how people are killing one another?
How's the ban on cigarettes going since you really care about people doing unsafe things and dying from it? Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. More than TWELVE times, the number of people that die from guns, including the suicides. Almost 4000 more people die a year from just living in a country with smokers than those who die due to gunshots.
Really let that last sentence soak in! 41000 people died not because they chose to smoke but because other people then themselves decided to smoke near them. Only around 38000 people died from guns in 2019, and out of those around 23000 of them killed themselves, I can only assume so they wouldn't have to put up with people like you that are really going to try and skip around all this other information just to try and take away people's right to defend themselves using the best tool for the job.
Fuck off you, God damn lunatic!!!
What a tool. Smoking should be banned, yes. I do agree with that. And I'm leaving US soon enough, don't worry lol. But if your response to criticism is "hurr durr leave US", there's no point in arguing with a meathead like you.
Drunk driving IS ILLEGAL. It's a by product of US's car centric lifestyle. That should also be addressed. Also, you talked about diseases. Like bitch, everyone IS trying to abolish them. It's just hard. What a dumb motherfucker you are.
Yeah, a bit farther down he posted that anyone who is against guns hates men (even if they themselves are men as well).
So apparently, his whole ego and masculinity are built on himself shooting guns.
It's sad, really.
👏👏👏👏 Great retort there. Just ban anything that might hurt people. Bye guns, bye cars, bye tools, bye drugs, bye smokes, bye pets, bye sugar, bye bacon, etc, etc, etc. Just your standard leftist argument for people to have nothing and be happy about it.
You're just another average leftist. Blame guns instead of criminals. Blame cars instead of drunk drivers. Anything to punish innocent Americans instead of actual criminals.
Dude could give you fact after fact after fact and all you can say is "hurr durr, US is bad".
Leave faster. 🖕
What fact? Data literally shows that US is the least safe of all Western countries. And I'm saying Western countries because there's no point in comparing with poorer countries, they have other problems. And I'm not saying banning any of those stuff is good, you moron.
Guns should be regulated heavily, cars should not be needed by anyone and everyone, who said anything about tools? Drugs are already regulated. Smokes too, every country is trying to abolish it. And I'm not totally against all drugs. I actually think weed should be legalized, as it seems to be much safer than cigarettes and not at all worthy of a ban. Pets are nice. I love sugar, and bacon.
You don't know anything about me, internet stranger. It's clear to me that you prefer to make enemies out of everyone who disagrees with you. I wish people like you had a chance to be better.
Please read your own statistics. The first graph you showed forgot to add gun suicides to the gun violence number. And removing ~2% of deaths just by changing some simple laws is huge. It would be better than completely curing AIDS.
Regarding your second screenshot: The guy before was talking about how the USA is the most dangerous western country. So you post a screenshot which puts the USA behind some non-western country.
If you look at the fitting article on Wikipedia
You see that the USA is currently on place 9, behind only South/Middle American and Carribian countries.
The next kinda western country is Serbia on place 22.
A toaster and ladder have constructive applications.