this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2024
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[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 4 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Neoliberal ≠ Left wing

FTFY

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world -3 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

Same difference since today's liberals are Neoliberals.

[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Neoliberalism is a perversion of liberalism. It is not the evolution and certainly not the natural progression of liberal thought.

It is a excuse looking for a rationalization. An offshoot no normal liberal would approve of. They are like that weird stranger who thinks numbers will fix everything.

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 3 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

The liberties that original liberalism introduced are so basic that they're now taken for granted by all but the extreme Right.

The founding fathers were classic liberals and still most major them owned slaves and none of them would give them up during their own lifetime. While mostly very progressive for their time, they would be considered very conservative today.

You're right about one thing: Neoliberalism IS a perversion of liberalism and it's NOT natural. That doesn't change that it's the kind of liberalism that exists today and that "liberal" and "on the left" are objectively mutually exclusive.

It is a excuse looking for a rationalization. An offshoot no normal liberal would approve of. They are like that weird stranger who thinks numbers will fix everything.

That's how it was in the 80s/late 70s when Neoliberalism was pioneered by the likes of Reagan and Thatcher. Nowadays, both of them would be considered to the Left of most Democrats and yes, all liberals.

You're simply using the false definition of "anyone to the Left of Republicans" that billionaire-owned media have been drilling into your head in support of the false dichotomy of the two party system being absolute.

The biggest right wing party of Australia is called the Liberal Party and guess what? They're not the ones who are confused about what contemporary liberalism is.

Granted, the fact that Neoliberalism is inherently authoritarian, which is by definition illiberal on the other axis DOES add to the confusion, but on the left-right economic axis, Liberals are firmly to the right or they aren't liberals.

You might be thinking of social democrats rather than liberals tbh 🤷

[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 0 points 9 minutes ago

Liberalism thought leads to concepts like social democracy. I get it is popular to shit on liberalism by the edge lords nowadays but it really doesn't makes sense. My personal opinion is the whole anti liberal thing is just Russian propaganda.

Other parties using words like liberal and perverting it doesn't prove anything. Need I remind you the Nazi called themselves Natural Socialist German Worker Party. So I guess we can't use socialist or worker rights anymore by this same logic.

You speak of falling for propaganda but the whole concept our country has been drifting right is an illusion. Our country was always right and designed to suppress liberalism from the start. It was always liberalism in name only and anti-liberal in practice.

Once you realize we have been gamed from the start and the country was designed by the rich for the rich the sooner you can drop the fantasy about our country drifting to the right.

In fact we have always been right and at moments in history paid lip service to the left. I totally get this frustrates you and it should. Shitting on liberalism doesn't solve anything as it is not the real problem.

[–] Quadhammer@lemmy.world 0 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

I'm not really sure why tankies are so bent on hammering liberal into a right wing tool. It is not

[–] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

I have a few ideas why liberals keep painting everyone who points out the fact that liberalism is a center right to right wing ideology as tankies 🙄

For the record, I'm an anti-authoritarian pacifist, meaning that only someone with an extremely superficial understanding of political ideology would ever confuse me for a tankie.