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Why do people on reddit seem to hate Lemmy/Mbin/other federated link aggregators?
(lemmy.dbzer0.com)
this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2024
198 points (90.2% liked)
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Devs are allegedly Marxist-Leninists.
Redditors dont understand that devs dont exactly have full control of open source software, that different instances are not operated by the devs.
Edit: Lemmy devs to be specific
I don't get the hate against the lemmy devs tbh, they have their (perhaps controversial) political views but they leave everyone that's not on their site alone and it feels like they develop lemmy pretty impartially
sure they might ban you off ml but that's their site and they get to do whatever they want with it, just like every other instance
i mean network effect is a thing i guess but that's not as important on lemmy where there are usually similarly large communities about generic things on most major instances
Exactly .... it's also a double standard because reddit is basically a capitalist model of the same digital system but no one ever complains or criticizes it.
The socialist digital creators built something and shared it freely with everyone and also don't exert control over anyone.
The capitalist digital creatures built something and locked it up, monetized it and are using the user's efforts as the basis for the business only the owners make money on and have complete control over everything.
It's amazing because it's a fantastic metaphor for the two platforms.
Calling them "socialist digital creators" is misleading at best, if not an outright insult to socialism.
They are marxists-leninists who whitewash the crimes committed by the USSR and CCP. They support the genocidal invasion by Russia, a country that is neither socialist or democratic; it's an authoritarian capitalist oligarchy.
There is no double standard. You don't see the CTO of reddit running a subreddit dedicated to whitewashing the Pinochet regime and/or western colonialism in Africa or Asia.
Reddit is run by sketchy and corrupt individuals, it is possible that in a just world we would even call them criminals. Lemmy's marxists-leninists are openly supportive of genocidal actions and brutal authoritarian leadership. There is no comparison.
Could provide a link to a comment or a quote where the devs whitewash the crimes or support genocides?
My man, the head developer of lemmy is the admin of lemmygrad. He has a fucking Mao picture in his profile!
Don't even try to weasel your way around this. This is not going to work with me.
I hate these people. Pathetic larpers living in democratic countries while supporting authoritarianism and genocide. And when I say hate, I don't mean it in the internet slang way ("hater").
How should I put this without breaking any rules? I genuinely wish they meet the same fate as "Donbas Cowboy", Russell Bentley:
No, he is not. Check admins section on lemmygrad.ml, which profile do you think belongs to dessalines? He is only admin of lemmy.ml.
It's a controversial figure, but it doesn't mean that the dev supports crimes or genocides.
You judge people who support genocide, I get it and I here with you. But wishing death upon others because of their opinions? That’s just hypocrisy.
Are you sure about that? Why does this page state that:
With a further clarification that Muad'Dibber (who is currently an admin) is dessalines
Is Muad'Dibber not dessalines?
Controversial figure? Mao was a brutal dictator that directly caused an inordinate amount of deaths and suffering. He is no better than Stalin, Pinochet, Hitler or Pol Pot.
Since he runs lemmygrad, he most definitely supports the genocide of Ukrainians in the occupied territories. Before you start acting out, I'd like to see you and your family try and speak Ukrainian in the occupied and try and publicly oppose russian occupaiton. I think the example I provided with the “Donbas Cowboy”, Russell Bentley, should give you an idea of what life is like there.
And then there is also their support for the genocide of Uighurs in Xinjiang.
For you this is just random internet drama. I am not going to tolerate any degenerate LARPer shilling for russia and the CCP.
These are not mere opinions. These scoundrels wish me, my family and my fellow citizens harm in the most pathetic way possible; by LARPing online as marxist-leninists. It is reasonable to want them to end up like “Donbas Cowboy”, Russell Bentley. This a just and fair end for Western LARPers who whitewash genocide.
My bad, I didn’t know that! I assume it’s true then. Before the Reddit blackout, ML was a socialist-leaning instance (they edited the description of the instance), while Lemmygrad always were like this. It puzzles me why he might administrate both instances.
He made quite a lot of bad stuff, that's true. However, he also liberated the country from foreign occupation and advanced literacy, women's rights, basic healthcare, education, and life expectancy. China's population nearly doubled under his leadership. This is why he is considered controversial. It's strange to compare him with someone who occupied half of Europe.
You made conclusions about his opinions yourself and are trying to argue against them. Condemn actual statements. I don’t see dessalines wishing harm on you, but I do see you doing the very thing you criticize him for.
Come on now. Does it really puzzle you why he would admin lemmygrad? I am sorry, I don't buy this.
So you're saying that there is something inherent to Chinese culture that would not make it possible to advance literacy, women's right, basic healthcare without mass killings and brutality? Mao is a mass murderer.
Dessalines admins a instance that openly supports russia's (a country that's not in any way socialist) genocidal invasion of my country. That's not wishing me harm?
I'm just saying that it's a bit weird to administrate two instances related to socialism (they're the two oldest instances), but maybe he has his reasons 🤷
That's not what I said. I explained why he is considered controversial. He did many good stuff and that's why some Marxists like it. Not because some of his policies were responsible for a vast number of deaths - that would be weird 😅
Sure, Russia isn’t socialist by any stretch of the imagination. From what I can see, Lemmygrad users oppose NATO and US expansion, I don't think they want Ukrainian people to die.
He is an admin of lemmygrad. A cesspool of degenerate LARPers that support genocidal imperialism.
Mao is a mass murderer and an authoritarian. If you support him, you are white washing his crimes. You do understand that good things can be achieved without mass killings and implementing an authoritarian, one party state? Difficult stuff, I know!
No, they support the killing of Ukrainians and extermination of Ukrainian identity. They support interment of ten of thousands of Ukrainian civilians in russian torture camps. They support the destruction of the Ukraine as a nation and Ukrainian cultural identity.
It is fair and just to want such vile individuals to get a taste of their own medicine.
The NATO expansion stuff is a ruse. NATO expansion is determined by national self-determination; especially when your neighbour is a country where a strong majority of the population are genocidal imperialist.
I never implied that deaths were necessary.
That's a bold claim. Condemn actual people's statements. You're making a strawman to justify your hate.
That's the weirdest explanation I've ever heard 😅 You're also using the word "genocide" wrong. Genocide is a purposeful attempt to destroy any human group. In the case of Russia, that's just imperialism - they simply don't care about Ukrainians (sadly). Otherwise, any war could be called genocidal.
Then why are you white-washing Mao's atrocities? Surely, if you think the death and absurd brutality (cultural revolution?) is not good thing, you would support movements and leaders who don't engage in such conducts.
Come on now. Don't play dumb.
They openly support and cheer for the Russian invasion? Why would I not hate them for this?
Show me an example of them condemning russian atrocities. Just one. I shouldn't hate people who white-wash russian crimes and claim they never happened?
Show me an example of them recognizing Ukrainian self-determination? One shouldn't hate people who want you to be a colony of the shithole that is russia?
Where is the strawman?
One would have to be a genocidal imperialist to state that a country should not have the right to aspire to join NATO (especially if you border russia).
Try speaking Ukrainian in the occupied territories or opening a Ukrainian Orthodox Church.
No, you just want to white wash russian crimes and the degenerates at Lemmygrad.
For example, when the US invaded Iraq, did they do the following:
I never did 🤷. White-washing is when you try to justify or make something bad look good. I'm simply saying that he did both good and bad things, and some people admire him for the good parts. So, if someone likes Mao, it doesn’t necessarily mean they support the deaths he caused.
I assert that people on Lemmygrad oppose NATO expansion and believe that the US is the greater evil. You claim that they wish harm upon Ukrainians. However, opposing US imperialism does not mean they want the Ukrainian people to suffer.
For example, looking at the upvotes on this comment from Lemmygrad's world news, it's clear that they feel sympathy for Ukraine. There are individuals, like this commenter, who suggest bombing Ukraine, but the comment is downvoted.
This is why I wouldn’t say that people on Lemmygrad want your nation to suffer. I don’t necessarily agree with their opinions, but they certainly don't deserve death.
But you are trying to make something bad look good. Mao is a bad person. He is a mass murder, an authoritarian. Good things can and should be achieved without mass murder.
Their opposition to NATO expansion is just another facet of their support for genocidal imperialism because they know that being in NATO makes it much less likely that russians will invade. The "US greater evil" is all BS. If they truely believed that they would move to russia or china. But they don't, they LARP as communists while stuffing their mouths with Big Macs and playing US-developed video games (in which they try to role play their imperialist fantasies).
Really, this is best you could find? You're really grasping at straws here. How is this a proxy war? Russian literally invaded my country. This is a russian genocidal invasion. If the Americans forced everyone in a hypothetically annexed Basra to eat tex-mex pork chops and banned Arabic and sent anyone caught speaking it to torture camps, you wouldn't call it genocidal imperialism? Just war, right?
I asked you some clear and direct questions and you come up with BS? Do you even believe what you are writing or are you just essentially shitposting?
We both know they actively support and cheer on the russian invasion. In an explicit and genuine manner. They want russia to be successful in its invasion of Ukraine. They want Ukrainian speakers in the occupied territories to be sent to torture camps. It is not difficult to say the russians were wrong to invade and it is wrong to commit atrocities and torture people (instead of just blaming Ukraine for mobilization).
Why should I not hate them for this? Why shouldn't I want them to meet the same fate as the “Donbas Cowboy”, Russell Bentley? Just imagine what was going through his mind in his last moments - must have a been a true moment of clarity. I want them to achieve that same that same level of clarity.
Can you explain this to me? You keep ignoring this point.
No, you implied that if someone likes Mao, then they support killing. And I said that it's not the case - Marxists like him because of the good things he did and condemn the murders.
You said that they wish Ukrainians death. I said that I doubt it and provided messages that prove my point. You made up their statements and are arguing against them.
Consider this thread as an example. Read what they actually say. You blame only Russia, they think NATO plays important role as well. But no normal person wants the war, that's what I trying to say.
If the violence is the primary goal, then it's called genocide.
I also doubt that Russia banned the Ukrainian language or sent people to torture camps for speaking it. Could you provide a source for this?
I answered a few messages above. I doubt that the devs wish harm to Ukraine or people in general. And even if they did, you would be no better than them 🤷
Of course, they support the killing. If they didn't, they wouldn't glorify Mao; a mass murders and an authoritarian scumbag.
Yes, they do wish Ukrainians death. They support the russian invasion and the russian occupation. The instance is rife with cheering for the russian army.
The NATO stuff is a ruse. Just a way to cover their support for genocidal imperialism. Ukraine was neutral ... wait for it ... before the russians invaded.
That thread is a cesspool of support russian genocidal imperialim.
This basically means we want russia to win to conduct more atrocities likes in Bucha. Just wild uncontrolled killing of civilians, rape and destruction. And Bucha is just one example that got in the news. There are mass graves in Izyum. Russians targeting civilians with drones in Kherson. Russians bombing a children's cancer hospital with cruise missile.
But no, NATO made them do it! And not a word about russian atrocities.
You do know how to use web search, right? You're just going to say some non-sequitur about NATO and bla bla bla or that it's all made up.
https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-prisons-civilians-torture-detainees-88b4abf2efbf383272eed9378be13c72
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/05/europe/ukrainian-civilians-detained-russian-prisons-intl-cmd/index.html
https://khpg.org/en/1608814097
That's not what I asked though.
We both agree that lemmygrad actively support the russian invasion of Ukraine. They cheer on the invasion and call for russian military success? Is this not true?
I asked you why I shouldn't hate them for it? Nothing to do with being no better them or whatever. I asked why I shouldn't hate people who support the invasion of my country and wish me harm?
Let's see what they actually say.
Well, I’m not sure how you’re interpreting this from the link I provided. You just making up their statements. I don’t want to have to cite their comments every time just to provide a counter-claim.
AP is a credible source, and there’s no doubt that Russian forces have harmed civilians. However, the claim that all Ukrainians who speak their language are imprisoned is questionable. For instance, Chechen is an official language in Russia despite two wars with Russia. Additionally, Russia provides citizenship to all Ukrainians, why would they imprison people for their native language? The article you referenced cites Radio Svoboda, which has ties to the CIA, so it's not a reliable source.
I think my answer is correct. You’re accusing them of supporting murder, yet you wish harm upon them yourself. If you prefer analogies, it's like condemning murder while being guilty of it yourself.
I told you would downplay russian atrocities and come up with some CIA word salad. You've never been to Ukraine, you don't speak Ukrainian and you dare lecture me and tell me that russian invasion is not that bad?
Get fucked, you vile tankie! I hope the very atrocities you deny will catch up to you one day!
Sure, anything that doesn't align with your worldview is just word salad😅
That's not what I said, but whatever 🤷
Hope some day you chill and won't be that toxic.
Alledgedly?
Marxist Leninst is a nice way to put it, they support Putin, Xi. Zhedong and Stalin.
Thankfully as you say, it’s FOSS with free federation and defederation. Admins only have control over lemmy.ml.
Pretty sure that's only true about Lemmy. There are other threadiverse apps. The mistake is people calling the threadiverse lemmy.
Yep, though the alternatives are not quite there yet software wise, but MBin and Piefed aren’t that far behind..
I'm on a pretty old version of mbin (I have some modifications I made for federation issues back when it was kbin). I need to spend a weekend to pilot an upgrade and make sure I can run it safely live.
But even then it's better in some ways already and I never feel like I'm missing something from lemmy. But I think just calling the whole thing lemmy puts off people that are seeing things through a political lens.
yep. as an mbin cheerleader, i evaluated both and kbin was better looking and perfectly functional from the start. no app required. no custom user-land css.
but what really bothers me is the conflation of lemmy and fediverse. theyre used almost interchangeably. other platforms get lost in the discussion.
Also there are plenty of alternatives. Both PieFed and Mbin are perfectly fine platform with, as far as I know, no tankie developers associated with them.
Mbin isn't